WMD at WTC

[Justice]

Originally Posted by stewey

If it were mini-nukes, one would imagine EMP would follow

Maybe mini nuke as we understand them is not the correct name here ?

Mini nukes date back to the 1950’s and they could make them as small as the equivalent of ten tons of TNT plus hydrogen bombs don’t produce so much radioactivity.

Governments are very secretive when it comes to weapons technology so they are not going to say what they can and can not do and casting your mind back the nukes used in WWII came out of the blue.

It would be stupid not to think that a new type of atomic bomb using possible a new substance for the core has not been developed during the past 40 years and this could had been used on 9/11.

Thermite can melt metal quick but I’m not sure it can heat it to such a degree that it would be molten hot weeks later and this is why I’m coming around to the theory about some type of atomic device

[Einstein700]

no EMP ? Many types of devices went dead at the moment the first tower 'collapsed'.



The area affected by EMP would of been much larger if the bomb was detonated above ground level and outside the buildings dense infastructure, but locating the mini-hydrogen bomb underground will significantly reduce the EMP pulse effects outside the target building.

The actual power of the EMP will determine how much it will interfer with electronic equipment, some equipment is more sensitive to this electro magnetic pulse than others, so some equipment maybe barely affected (or un-noticably affected) whilst other equipment is, it can even come down to the brand of equipment and the materials it uses. Certain types of structures and materials will shield or dampen the effect on some electronic devices from the EMP.

[Justice]

I’m not going for a mini nuke being underground as the basement would not had been damages as reported by eye witnesses but totally devastated with molten metal and glass all over the place and this would had been detected much easier by seismographs in the area.

Is anyone saying that the first explosions in the basement was to get everyone out of the basement and then blow the nukes in the basement a few seconds before the buildings come down or something as I think we all agree the towers started to crumble much closer to the top and why then use thermite and why the need for explosive devices on upper floors that gave out the side squibs that many witness reported hearing and captured by hundreds of news stations.

Maybe something like a hydrogen bomb that is the equivalent to ten or less tons of TNT could had been place in the central core on say floor 78 could had been used and such a small device may for all I know produce next to no radiation and the metal structure of the building would certainly help shield the EMP so it becomes hardly detectable, this I can except as a possible explanation but I’m not going to go for a device like that being placed in the basement of the building.

The two things that seem to back up the theory of a nuke is the concrete being reduced to 0.3 microns thick and the molten metal in the basement being so hot it was still molten five weeks later but I’m also concerned that a theory about nukes could be put out as governmental disinformation to divide the community of people that question the events of 9/11 and so allow them to get away with the crime of the decade.

[Einstein700]

Originally Posted by Justice

I’m not going for a mini nuke being underground as the basement would not had been damages as reported by eye witnesses but totally devastated with molten metal and glass all over the place and this would had been detected much easier by seismographs in the area.

Is anyone saying that the first explosions in the basement was to get everyone out of the basement and then blow the nukes in the basement a few seconds before the buildings come down or something as I think we all agree the towers started to crumble much closer to the top and why then use thermite and why the need for explosive devices on upper floors that gave out the side squibs that many witness reported hearing and captured by hundreds of news stations.

Maybe something like a hydrogen bomb that is the equivalent to ten or less tons of TNT could had been place in the central core on say floor 78 could had been used and such a small device may for all I know produce next to no radiation and the metal structure of the building would certainly help shield the EMP so it becomes hardly detectable, this I can except as a possible explanation but I’m not going to go for a device like that being placed in the basement of the building.

The two things that seem to back up the theory of a nuke is the concrete being reduced to 0.3 microns thick and the molten metal in the basement being so hot it was still molten five weeks later but I’m also concerned that a theory about nukes could be put out as governmental disinformation to divide the community of people that question the events of 9/11 and so allow them to get away with the crime of the decade.

Very logical conclusion about the h-bomb being 78 floors up. Observation would suggest it was placed higher up in the building, that is exactly what my first thoughts were, however this apparently is not the case.

From what I can tell, it was detonated in the basement, yet the blasts energy can be and was directed/focused upwards several hundred meters into the core, thus causing the effect of the building falling away from the top.

They are known as a 'directional' h-bomb, the blast can focus its energy hundreds (in this case thousands) of meters away from its point of detonation. Its an ingenious and quite unexpected ability with these devices.

yes, unfortunately it seems the micron sized particles and molten metal are clear indications of h-bomb usage, there are only a few methods known that will achieve this, and the fallout would be very minimal, easily washed away by spraying water.

, the bomb having been placed in the cellar and directed to the core, has reached the roof of the tower and the upper parts of the outer walls. On its way up the waves of fire pressure partially penetrated about 100 floors of concrete and steel. Over ten million degrees of heat caused by a hydrogen bomb sublimised all water within the concrete in a moment. Water exploded extremely quickly into 24-fold volume and totally pulverized the concrete. Even people and computers that were in the buildings disappeared turning into heat and light. That is why almost nothing of them was found in the ruins.

Burning radiation is absorbed in steel so quickly that steel heats up immediately over its melting point 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F) and above its boiling point around 3000 C (approx. 5430 °F). In the pictures down below, super hot groups of steel pillars and columns, torn from wall by pressure wave, are sublimized. They immediately turn into a vaporized form, binding heat as quickly as possible. Bursts upwards, even visible in the picture below, are not possible for a gravitational collapse or for cutting charges which are used horizontally.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/soldier5.htm



Spot the explosion



Storax Sedan 104 Kt shallow underground (100 times stronger than WTC payload)





A combination of the h-bomb as well as cutter charges for the corners of the main core have not been ruled out in this theory, infact its believed cutter charges may of been used then detonation of h-bomb took place.

I am aware of dis-information, COINTELPRO and other agencies with dis-information agendas, but i don't think this is dis-information. I would be more inclinded to believe Steve Jones is putting out dis-information with his thermite theory (that seems more unrealistic than the latter). The real dis-information comes from the 9/11 commission report.

I really don't want to rock the boat and spoil efforts made to expose the real cause behind the collapse, i just want to make sure its correct, it seems none of the other demo theories are without anomalies which are easily explained and correlate rather hauntingly with the usage of a h-bomb.

[Justice]

Einstein700

Sorry but I’ve got to come back at you again here.

Yes you can have directional blasts but thats in open air or to penetrate a few meters through solid objects as in bunker busters but it would not be possible as I understand things to make the blast go up 78 floors to blow the top off the building without blowing all the windows out on the lower floors and it’s no good saying that the lift shafts were used to channel that amount of energy to the top floors as non of the lift shafts went that far up in a single go as a system of sky lobbies was used and passengers needed to take several lifts to get to the top floors.

This last point is lost on people who go along with the official story and they fall for the guff about un-burnt fuel dropped down 78 floors before it ignited to blow the tiles off the walls on the ground and basement floors.

You must remember the side blasts captured on many of the news reports and well documented evidence about thermite being used, this is much more plausible then a nuke in the basement but I will concede that I have not ruled out a mini nuke type device being using in the upper floors

I am aware of dis-information, COINTELPRO and other agencies with dis-information agendas, but i don't think this is dis-information. I would be more inclinded to believe Steve Jones is putting out dis-information with his thermite theory (that seems more unrealistic than the latter).

i don't think many people would agree with the second part of this statement

Regards

[Einstein700]

What the military expert is trying to explain is that these directional blasts have a 'cone' of destruction, so if you could imagine a cone focused very small at the bottom and very wide at the top it makes some sense as to why we see the explosion at the top then the collapse of everything beneath from a basement detonation, and it happens extremely quickly. You can imagine if the cones destructive effect gradually expands after it reaches its target height then it would have the effect of a downwards explosion as the cone reaches the outer walls at a constant downwards rate.

but yes I have trouble with the 'directional mini nuke planted in the basement' theory too but that is perhaps one of the only details (excluding the other 23 points that suggest h-bomb) that doesn't seem to be obviously happening at the WTC. Maybe there were devices higher up in the tower or on a few different floors including the basement. The audio also suggests to me there were a series and/or combination of devices.

Look again at the arc of destruction in this diagram:

[Raptor Witness]

Here's an interesting collection of 911 photos and other material which I haven't seen before. [Link to new stuff]

[Justice]

Einstein700

It’s a lovely drawing but I could simply draw lines like that and say X,Y,Z about the blast pattern

If the blast has the power to take out the central core then being underground would offer little protection to foundations of the building and just what could be used to make the blast directional when the heat produced is as hot as the suns core ?

It makes no scene to blast the building from the bottom as I see it.

We need to learn more about developments in parting the atom and new mini nukes that are available to the military and then see if this fills in the missing pieces

Raptor Witness

Yes some good images, thanks

I’ve not gone along with the planes having something bolted to the underside but this one does seem to show something

[Raptor Witness]

Originally Posted by Justice

Einstein700

It’s a lovely drawing but I could simply draw lines like that and say X,Y,Z about the blast pattern

If the blast has the power to take out the central core then being underground would offer little protection to foundations of the building and just what could be used to make the blast directional when the heat produced is as hot as the suns core ?

It makes no scene to blast the building from the bottom as I see it.

We need to learn more about developments in parting the atom and new mini nukes that are available to the military and then see if this fills in the missing pieces

Raptor Witness

Yes some good images, thanks

I’ve not gone along with the planes having something bolted to the underside but this one does seem to show something

You know, an experiment is possible, which might help us identify whether or not this photograph is real or just an artificial illusion. If we took the same camera, at the same distance, with the same type of plane, moving at the same exact angle and speed, under identical lighting conditions, we could perhaps see if this illusion appears again. Would anyone here like to take any bets as to if the same illusion appears again?

Here's perhaps one of the most interesting engineering arguments I've seen. [Link] This is truly starting to look like sabotage. I'm also leaning towards the idea that thermite or an equivalent, could have been on board the planes, as opposed to preplacement inside the buildings.

The other thing that hasn't been explained by anyone yet, is how pieces of [Flight 93] were found eight miles form it's impact site in Pennsylvania. How come this obvious anomaly isn't EVER scrutinized? Are we all misled so easily by the hand like little children? I'm less perplexed by the anomalies, than I am by the child-like acceptance of the government's version of events, despite obvious questions, than I am the anomalies themselves. Are we a nation of blind, deaf, and dumb sheep, so deluded by our wealth that we stand behind ever lie peddled to us?

The sheep do not care if they are led over a cliff, nor will they question why members of the flock somehow fly for miles before splatting like Wiley Coyote.

I no longer trust my government. If they're willing to murder 50,000 innocent Iraqi citizens and claim moral superiority while doing so, they are willing to murder their own citizens.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Raptor Witness

You know, an experiment is possible, which might help us identify whether or not this photograph is real or just an artificial illusion. If we took the same camera, at the same distance, with the same type of plane, moving at the same exact angle and speed, under identical lighting conditions, we could perhaps see if this illusion appears again. Would anyone here like to take any bets as to if the same illusion appears again?

Here's perhaps one of the most interesting engineering arguments I've seen. [Link] This is truly starting to look like sabotage. I'm also leaning towards the idea that thermite or an equivalent, could have been on board the planes, as opposed to preplacement inside the buildings.

The other thing that hasn't been explained by anyone yet, is how pieces of [Flight 93] were found eight miles form it's impact site in Pennsylvania. How come this obvious anomaly isn't EVER scrutinized? Are we all misled so easily by the hand like little children? I'm less perplexed by the anomalies, than I am by the child-like acceptance of the government's version of events, despite obvious questions, than I am the anomalies themselves. Are we a nation of blind, deaf, and dumb sheep, so deluded by our wealth that we stand behind ever lie peddled to us?

The sheep do not care if they are led over a cliff, nor will they question why members of the flock somehow fly for miles before splatting like Wiley Coyote.

I no longer trust my government. If they're willing to murder 50,000 innocent Iraqi citizens and claim moral superiority while doing so, they are willing to murder their own citizens.

you know what raptor i never thought of that. it never crossed my mind they could have put thermite in the planes.im gonna go read up on some stuff ill get back to this post.

[Einstein700]

Justice,

Think some more about the cone of destruction and how it works. If you can imagine this cone is fully formed and reaches its maximum height in less than a second.

Because of its nature the detonation penetrates everything like an x-ray in a fraction of a second and you will only see its effect starting to happen at the top as its maximum width is at the top, the closer to the basement, the less width there is, the width in the basement is tiny and hasnt even started to penetrate half of the inner columns whilst the top is already penetrating the outer walls. Now after the detonation has happened and the cone is formed, the cones effect now starts moving outwards and this would appear to be demolishing the building from the top down as the wider parts of the cones effect meet the outer walls before the lower parts of the cone. Check out this diagram its a little clearer:



also if this is a cone then you can imagine a circle inside the square, it touching the outer wall symetrically and in the middle on each side of the outer wall.

[Justice]

Einstein700

“Because of its nature the detonation penetrates everything like an x-ray in a fraction of a second”

OK but then it’s more than eight seconds before any effects can be observed on the ground floors and by that time it’s the building coming down from above.

You can not have it both ways, micro seconds on the one hand and then tens of seconds on the other hand.

Nuclear blasts can not be controlled in this manner as they contain too much energy and heat.

Just blasting a cone through the building would create such heat inside each floor that the expanding air would start to travel towards the windows at supersonic speeds and yet most windows remained unbroken until the floors above came down on them.

“Steel core conduction heat” yeah I bet it does a lot of that in 00000.1ms

“Sheer volume of concrete” but the towers didn’t have much concrete

“Target high reaching outside” so it blows through 78 floors and evaporates steel but as soon as it get to the 78 floor it breaks out side and then within a few dozen meters it stops ? That type of blast would only stop when it hit the moon and I didn’t see that did you.

Do you think it was simply the x-rays that did the damage and this was focused by some type of lenses on to the 78 floor because this would still not account for the nuclear blast not lifting the whole building up into the air.

Again it’s a nice picture but I’m not falling for that one.

[Einstein700]

Originally Posted by Justice

Einstein700

“Because of its nature the detonation penetrates everything like an x-ray in a fraction of a second”

OK but then it’s more than eight seconds before any effects can be observed on the ground floors and by that time it’s the building coming down from above.

You can not have it both ways, micro seconds on the one hand and then tens of seconds on the other hand.

Nuclear blasts can not be controlled in this manner as they contain too much energy and heat.

Just blasting a cone through the building would create such heat inside each floor that the expanding air would start to travel towards the windows at supersonic speeds and yet most windows remained unbroken until the floors above came down on them.

“Steel core conduction heat” yeah I bet it does a lot of that in 00000.1ms

“Sheer volume of concrete” but the towers didn’t have much concrete

“Target high reaching outside” so it blows through 78 floors and evaporates steel but as soon as it get to the 78 floor it breaks out side and then within a few dozen meters it stops ? That type of blast would only stop when it hit the moon and I didn’t see that did you.

Do you think it was simply the x-rays that did the damage and this was focused by some type of lenses on to the 78 floor because this would still not account for the nuclear blast not lifting the whole building up into the air.

Again it’s a nice picture but I’m not falling for that one.

your probably right, it seems more like there were a series of charges and it doesnt seem to fit correctly with the physics of a single h-bomb detonated in the basement. There are still many strong points that suggest a h-bomb was used because of the micron sized pulverisation of concrete & other materials and the super heating of steel. But if they were detonated higher up then you should expect the EMP to be stronger which is one reason I think it was in the basement.

Check out this:

23 Questions For Steven Jones on WMD at WTC and No Answers

http://www.911eyewitness.com/truth/i...article&sid=63

[Justice]

Einstein700

it was a good open debate and it's a shame that the non believers don't behave in the same way instead of just arguing against all odds when they know that something has been said and even know it is probably true and yet they dare not let the guard down and say so.

Regards

Justice

[Raptor Witness]

Here's another photo, taken with a different camera of the same event taking place. [Link to Vanity Fair Photo Essay]

It's not very conclusive as a back up, but I'd love to see the original photograph. I am impressed by the fact, that since the light was striking the right side of the fuselage, from the rising sun in the east, you wouldn't expect a mirage on this side, but on the other.