Why Bush Won And Gore Lost In 2000

[fatman6502002]

dontbeafraid,

<<while NOT citing any real sources yourself.....>>

I am not going to do your work for you. Do your own research, if you are interested in finding the real truth you will through real non-ideological research.

<<I live in a red state and I look around and see no growth>>

Then you are not looking very hard. The fact is that the unemployment rate is down to 5%, the economy has been growing for the last few years at a rate of 3.4%, in Clintons term the economy averaged only 2.5% growth, also the average unemployment rate during Clintons term was 5.6%. Yes the economy is now better and it has created 3 million or so new jobs in the last few years; the budget deficit will shrink by $100 billion this year. Apparently you keep yourself willfully ignorant of all this good economic news. I wonder why?

<<Luckily the war on terror is over>>

Where did you get this idea. The war on terror will not be over for many years or decades.

<<so no more people will have to die for that bush lie>>

Many more innocent people, here in the US and all over the world are going to die before the war on terror is over. Now you are calling the war on terror a Bush lie, how pathetic that you cannot even see or acknowledge the threat that terrorists are to you and every other free person in the world. As a typical non-thinking liberal you just stick your head in the sand and pretend that there is no terror threat; you spout wild and ignorant conspiracy theories; all this just to pretend to yourself that you and your country are not facing any threat. Open your eyes and stop living in your make believe liberal nirvanna. If you want to live a care free life move to Canada or France, you would be doing the US a real favor.

<<I wonder though; is he still authorized to send people to their deaths in this "struggle against extremism"?>>

Yes he is by Congressional Resolution as will the next President and the one after that.

<<Maybe he should send a nice fellow christian such as yourself?>>

I have already been in combat in defense of my country and in defense of your God given rights enshrined by our Constitution. It is you who should now take your turn and go pay the price for your rights, they are not free and throughout the US's history far better men and women than you have made the ultimate sacrafice so idiots like you can say ignorant and stupid things while sitting comfortably without fear on your couch watching MTV.

Fatman

[Protostar]

Thanks fatman for setting him straight. And thanks not only for your insight but for your service to our counrty.

[DontBeAfraid]

You assume I havent taken my turn? let me repeat myself

Its all nice and easy to say that I dont do any research and only parrot talking points while NOT citing any real sources yourself.....

typical conservative idiot. If I dont like YOUR ways I should leave america.... ya thats what this country is all about isnt it.

I dont believe in your god and thats not where rights come from.
I have quite a few posts here, before you go pretending you know ANYTHING about me why dont you read a few of them. btw what was your MOS?


edit: soon bankrupsty rates will be going down dramatically but not because of a better economy. They will be going down the same way that bush fixes all stats, rigging the system. He recently signed a into law a bill that simply makes it a LOT harder file bankruptsy..... while bush will gloat over his "stats" when this takes effect what will he say over the rise in suicides this creates?

[fatman6502002]

DontBeAfraid,

<<typical conservative idiot. If I dont like YOUR ways I should leave america.... ya thats what this country is all about isnt it.>>

You totally mischaracterize or misunderstand my meaning. If people do not like it here or if they are not going to be loyal to this country then they should leave. The fact is with your anti-American attitude you give aid and comfort to our terrorist enemies, that is the very definition of treason and for that reason you should leave and find a home in a country that is more in line with your views. The fact is that by saying things like, Bush lied to get us into war or there is no terrorist threat or any of the other ignorant leftist bromides, you and the others saying those things are doing the terrorists bidding. I believe it was Lenin who said people like you are "useful idiots".

<<I dont believe in your god and thats not where rights come from>>

You have no idea who or what I worship, in fact I have not been to church in 25 years, I happen to believe that God is in ones heart, but apparently not in yours. Have you read the Declaration of Independence lately, I doubt it, but it says quite clearly: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". Did you notice that it says "endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights". The reason it says that is so that it is understood that certain rights are granted by GOD to you simply by being born so that those rights may never be taken away by any government or person. Unfortunately for you, since you do not believe in a creator, your unalienable rights are ripe for the taking, not only for that reason but also because you do not seem to believe that your unalienable rights and those of others are worth fighting for against those who seek to take them away.

<<I have quite a few posts here>>

So what, obviously your ability to think clearly is not directly proportional to the number of posts you have here.

before you go pretending you know ANYTHING about me why dont you read a few of them.>>

I have read a few of them and they tell me all I need or care to know about you. In my opinion, garnered from your writings, you are a self-absorbed whiney little welp who has probably never even concieved of the idea that there are some things more important and bigger than yourself, for instance, Duty, Honor and Country.

<<btw what was your MOS>>

I was in the US Navy in the 1980's, what I did specifically is none of your business. For the last 8 years I have been a Navy Contractor working on combat systems and intelligence systems. I now live in Michigan.

<<He recently signed a into law a bill that simply makes it a LOT harder file bankruptsy>>

Good. Bankruptcy in the last several decades has become just a simple way of getting out of paying your bills. There is no such thing as a free lunch, people should pay their bills and not be given an easy out like declaring bankruptcy.

<<while bush will gloat over his "stats" when this takes effect what will he say over the rise in suicides this creates?>>

Amazing, you even blame President Bush for a rise in suicides that has not even occured, what a crystal ball you have. It is disturbing the way you percieve what a President is; from your writings it seems you think the President is some sort of national daddy who is responsible for everything that happens. I have to tell you people have free will and if they choose to commit suicide it is not the fault of the President, it is rather a sign that the killer of oneself is possessive of a weak and undisciplined character. We all go through tough times in our lives and those that choose the easy way out are simply weak. The fact is that the President's number one job is to protect America and it's interests around the world and hateful evil people such as yourself make that job all that much harder for him since you are constantly doing our enemies bidding.

You should become a LOYAL citizen of this country and stop trying to undermine the Presidents efforts(whomever he or she is), now and in the future, to fight and win the war on terror. The US can only be defeated by it's own citizens, that is the lesson that you should have learned from the history of the Vietnam War, a war in which we never lost a single engagement with the enemy on the battlefield, but was lost on our streets because of treacherous traitors who weakened the will of our nation to win, kind of like what you and many others are attempting to do now. The same thing can easily happen in this war and remember if it does and the islamists take over you will probably be one of the first they kill since they dispise infidels who do not believe in a God more than any other kind of infidel. For your sake and others like you I hope and pray we win this war despite yours and others best efforts to the contrary.

The fact is you have been granted a huge victory in "lifes lottery" by being an American. I can tell you from my experiences travelling in Asia, Africa and the Middle East that there is no real poverty here in America compared to poverty in other parts of the world. The average "poor person" in America owns a car, lives in a house with several TV's, VCR's and a computer and never has to worry about going hungry. People in real poverty like in Indonesia, Kenya, Nigeria and Yemen have to fight for their very survival everyday, in all of those places you can see hundreds of people at all hours of the day and night scavenging in garbage dumps looking for food to eat and shoes or clothes to wear. Go to your local garbage dump and see for yourself how many people are scavenging there for food and clothes in order to survive, I doubt you will see any. In the US the poor live better than the middle class in most other countries. Yes there is a small number(percentage wise) of homeless people but in almost all cases it is their own personal behavior that put them on the streets, alcholism, drug addiction etc...etc... and some are there due to mental illness none of which are the fault of whomever the President is. Unless you have been to other countries where there is real poverty and you see it for yourself you will never truely appreciate how lucky you are to live in America.

Fatman

[Spartan]

should this even be argued with. darwinism will take in effect sometime.

[DontBeAfraid]

lol.... the average poor person? The average poor person sleeps on the streets outside the mission or in the park where I live.

Like I said and pointed out the stats you tout are engineered. after a certain amount of time being unemployed you are no longer classified as unemployed, thanks to the bush administration. Now he will tout that bankruptsy is going down but thats engineered also.

We lost vietnam because we had no real goals and no real way of measuring any..... iraq.

I believe you were a cook in the navy, im very impressed, cooking is hard. So what did you think of Hells Kitchen?

I have seen poverty in other countries and it looks exactly like it does here only its a lot more visible. Luckily for americans in poverty there are bleeding heart liberals willing to help; not just low-IQ/high-pride/buzz-word-swallowing conservatives to try and hide them and pretend they dont exist.

Since research is obviously beyond your capabilities(I should have just assumed as such based on your political views) I will tell you that I was in the military and that I remember they were very fund of repeating those buzz words too. Duty: We as americans have a duty to do the right thing, to not let our country be hijacked by crimnal terrorists. Honor: we must honor the trust that our current men and women have bestoyed upon us not to get them killed frivilously, not to send them into unjust wars and turn them into unwilling criminals.(dont read that the wrong way you fucktard) Country: I do love this country and I wont let you and your cronies steal it from us true americans!

The declaration was very carefully worded as to be open to interpretation about whether or not a god exists. This was done on purpose so as not to exlude anyone. A creator doesnt have to be a god, it can simply be circumstances that brought about a creation. A catalyst. I know you are a republican so Im not going to hold the fact that you didnt know that against you, there is a lot you dont know.

[Emerald_Dragon]

>The fact is that by saying things like,
>Bush lied to get us into war or there is no terrorist threat
>or any of the other ignorant leftist bromides,

you didn't get a gander at the Downing Street memos, did you? they pretty much tell us that he did.
who are you calling ignorant, again? :)


>Unfortunately for you, since you do not believe in a creator,

tellya what, in this day and age, I can play "god". i can choose the sex, hair color, and eye color of my future child. and as soon as science can find out what combinations of DNA amino acids that contribute to intelligence, i'll have them give you an injection for free!

didya know that we can genetically manipulate plant life? animal life? human life? ever wonder what we would be considered if we were to travel to Mars, do some experiments, teach a few things on how to treat each other to the lifeforms we engineer, and then leave?

oops, sorry, not politics. end of thought.



>...should have learned from the history of the Vietnam War,
>a war in which we never lost a single engagement with the enemy on the battlefield,

err, it was mostly jungle.

The British only had to lose Yorktown to lose the war. I don't think guerrilla attacks by an inferior opponent counts as a battlefield engagement. I've read enough about the Vietnam war to know it was about war profiteering. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was bogus. Why would a bunch of PT boats, remnants of WW2, attack a technologically advanced foe? lol! the VC were local militias and the North Vietnamese army was never a match for any equivalent-sized unit. they were lucky to ever shoot down 6 B-52s in a day.


>You should become a LOYAL citizen of this country and stop trying to undermine the Presidents efforts

didn't Teddy Roosevelt say something about being very American to criticize the government? Or was that Mark Twain?


Fatman, welcome to the forums. i think you'll learn alot here. You may have had 20+ years in the military, but well, we can help you recover from what they've fed you all these years (laughs at self).
You may feel that we are being quite unAmerican for contesting your views, but its our right. You fought for us to be able to speak freely and not be dragged away for it. Now try and listen as we shed some other perspectives on what you believe.

[Emerald_Dragon]

err, just catching up and ....


>To claim that the 1990's saw the creation of a budget surplus shows a complete ignorance of reality.

...wasn't that due to Clinton shutting down like, half the U.S. bases around the world? if you don't have to pay fixed and variable costs of maintaining a military installation outside of U.S. soil, of course you'll have a budget surplus.

[fatman6502002]

Emerald_Dragon,

<<you didn't get a gander at the Downing Street memos, did you? they pretty much tell us that he did>>

I did read the DSM and it says nothing like what you are characterizing it as saying. In fact the DSM supports the fact that the Bush and Blair administrations, far from "cooking up intell" truely believed that WMD's were in Iraq since, according to the DSM, they discussed what steps would be taken if Saddam used them. I also believe that PM Blair recently disavowed the DSM and that there is some evidence that it was cooked up by the media much like the Dan Rather CBS fake memo's fiasco.

<<who are you calling ignorant, again?>>

Since you are obviously ignoring certain salient facts that tend to disprove your preconcieved notions and continuing biased beliefs, I guess I will have to include you in those that I termed ignorant. The only question about you and the others is whether you are naturally ignorant or if you keep yourself willfully ignorant, there is a difference and I will leave it up to you to do some soul searching and come to a truthful answer.

<<tellya what, in this day and age, I can play "god">>

Only in your mind. I dont care if you can pick the sex or eye color of your child, that does not make you the Creator from whom our natural rights emminate.

<<as soon as science can find out what combinations of DNA amino acids that contribute to intelligence, i'll have them give you an injection for free>>

Thank you very much. Just make sure you get a double dose since your writings prove beyond all doubt that you need it far more than me.

<<didya know that we can genetically manipulate plant life? animal life? human life?>>

Yadda yadda, thats old news. Did you know that it is liberals who think like you that are preventing genetically engineered food from being grown that would help alleviate much of the famine in the world by being resistance to drought, disease and insects?

<<didn't Teddy Roosevelt say something about being very American to criticize the government?>>

I have no problem with criticizing the government. I do have a problem when that criticizism crosses the line and becomes treasonous. Listening to you left wingers of today it sounds as if you are all hoping for the US defeat in the war on terror simply so President Bush wont get any credit for a victory. The fact is by repeating the lies you keep repeating you are doing exactly what bin-laden and the terrorists want you to do, this is their strategy, i.e. to wear down the US's willingness to fight the terrorists untill we have achieved total victory and eventually surrender. The fact is that the lefts hatred for President Bush seems to far outweigh their self-proclaimed love of country.

I thought it was a bad decision when Bill Clinton attacked Kosovo(which by the way was done unilaterally without UN approval or Congressional approval) for the simple reason that there were no vital American interests being advanced by such action. As we have seen, saving muslims in Kosovo has bought us no good will from muslims at all. The point is though that once the decision was made and our men and women were in harms way I never uttered a public or private word against that operation, in fact I supported it unequivically because my motive was to see the US win even though a President I hated intensly would get the credit. You seem to think that because you have the right to criticize the government that it is always right to do so, it is not, we all need to practice self-censorship at times.

<<The British only had to lose Yorktown to lose the war>>

Ridiculous. Obviously your understanding of the Revolutionary War specifically and military strategy in general is somewhat suspect and limited to say the least.

<<I don't think guerrilla attacks by an inferior opponent counts as a battlefield engagement>>

Why dont you get shot at by "guerrilla's" and see if you then consider it a battlefield engagement. I am sure if you had ever been in combat of any level you would have a different opinion. As soon as the bullets start flying around you, you are on a battlefield and in an engagement. Obviously you are a rank amature when it comes to understanding combat or any other aspects of military life.

<<I've read enough about the Vietnam war to know it was about war profiteering>>

This is an ignorant and pedantic statement and shows a childish level of understanding of what the Vietnam War was about. Was their profiteering, of course but not any more than what happened in any other war, profiteering is a by-product of any war. To state that the war was about profiteering is to prove your total ignorance of the context in which it was fought. Did you notice what happened after the US left Southeast Asia? The genocide in Cambodia and the killing of several hundred thousand Vietnamese, the almost total eradication of the Hmong in Vietnam. These were the things we were fighting to prevent by stopping the spread of communism, since where ever communism advances genocide is soon to follow, I only have to mention the 20,000,000 Russians and Ukranians killed by Stalin's induced famines, and of course the 30,000,000 million Chinese killed by Mao during his Great Leap Backward, to say nothing of the 1,200,000 killed by Pol Pot in Cambodia.

<<The Gulf of Tonkin incident was bogus>>

This is old news, what is your point? President Johnson was a crook, we all know that.

<<Why would a bunch of PT boats, remnants of WW2, attack a technologically advanced foe>>

If that had ever happened I would suspect that someone with your military knowledge and acumen was in charge of that strategy.

<<You may feel that we are being quite unAmerican for contesting your views, but its our right>>

I do not think you are traitors for disagreeing with me. I think you are traitors because your actions are helping our enemies defeat the US, and that is the very definition of treason. Whether you actually hope to bring about a US defeat or whether you are simply a "usefull idiot" being led around by International ANSWER, it makes no difference; by repeating the lies of our enemies you are helping our enemies in their attempts defeat the US out of simple hatred for President Bush or the neo-cons, and that makes you and the other fifth columinsts traitors.

<<You fought for us to be able to speak freely and not be dragged away for it>>

Correct, but I did not fight to allow you and others to be able to help our enemies defeat us. All of our rights have reasonable limits, the right to free speach is no different. You need to start excersizing some personal responsibility when deciding when and what you say.

<<Now try and listen as we shed some other perspectives on what you believe>>

I doubt I will learn anything from any of you spoiled, self-absorbed whiney little welps who have no idea how lucky you are to live in the US, I have heard it all before and by repeating the typical liberal/socialist lies you are not going to shed any more light on your perspectives, I already know what they are.

Fatman

[DontBeAfraid]

You seem to think that because you have the right to criticize the government that it is always right to do so, it is not, we all need to practice self-censorship at times

wow..... fathitler.
You are a joke dude. How is it possible to win a war against an enemy that isnt solid? There will always be a new group of terrorists.... unless we start numbering and tracking EVERYONE who is alive and born we cannot do it. You like to be scared of ghosts so go ahead and be scared of ghosts.... Ill work against the guy who keeps telling you "the ghosts are gonna get ya"..... You can thank me later.

[kathaksung]

Originally Posted by fatman6502002

kathaksung,

We all are aware that you are a socialist/communist and therefore hate capitalism even though the evidence over the last hundred years clearly shows that countries that embrace capitalism are the most productive countries the world has ever seen offering a quality of life better than any other. The problem is your thought process is ideological not analytical and therefore you simply ignore evidence that does not support your sick ideology. Communism and socialism belong in the ash bin of history, why dont you put them there.

Fatman

Fatman, label others is easy but if you want to convince people, pick up a point to argue or discuss.

I think you are one of accessaries sent out by Feds to defame and discredit dissenters. This is a pay back to your "socialist/communist" labelling.

-------------

9. How to blow a balloon bigger (7/29/05)

If the paper value of the whole stock in maket is 20 t (trillion), then there may be only 1 t stock is active in trading. The rest stock is inactive (sleeping stock). Because some owners hold it to control the company; some owners hold it as long term investment. (mostly the people hold it as retirement investment)

Only a little fund can change the whole value. When there is 1.1 trillion investment fund entering the market and caused a 10% increase on 1 t stock, the rest sleeping stock(19 t) felt their asset increased by 10% too. That's how a baloon is multiplied by 19 times.

So there are two ways to increase stock market value.
1. To increase the investment fund in the stock market. This is what government has done to push the pension fund, 401(k) fund into the stock market. And Bush is doing now to put S.S. fund to the market.

2. To reduce the stock for sell also can raise the stock price.

When the money supply is 1 t. But the supply of stock for selling increased to 2 t, then there will be a 50% drop of price.(1t fund/2t is 0.5) Original $1.00 share can only get $0.50. If the stock for selling reduced to 0.5 t. Then the price will double. $1.00 share can sell for $2.00. A 100% increase. (1t fund/0.5t is 2) Reduce the quantity of stock for selling is a more effective way to boost the price.

This is why Bush's plan allow the privatization fund heritable. Old people would have sold the pension stock because it's foolish not to spend it before their death. Now they will think, "if I have no necessity to sell it, whatever happen to me, my son will have it." The inactive stock will go on sleeping. There will be a significant quantity of stock avoid to be sold in the market.

While a small amount of investment fund (say, 1t) support a fantacy of a big treasure ballon (say, 20t), interest group hope more people sleep on the paper stock to go on with their dream. So it will make them easy to blow the balloon bigger and delay the crisis from exploding.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Why is it that even after hundreds of years people dont realize that it was made possible to criticize and question the government and its leaders?

Why still, when people make use of this right does someone else accuse those who are excersising their rights as citizens as being treasonous, or liberal or even left wing? Ive seen many instances, especially lately where even christian conservatives havent spared themselves to the same rhetorical commentary towards this administration.

Are they treasonous too? Or is that type of commentary "ok" because conservatives are allowed to do so?

[Emerald_Dragon]

>>you didn't get a gander at the Downing Street memos, did you?
>>they pretty much tell us that he did

>I did read the DSM and it says nothing like what you are characterizing it as saying.

I guess reading for comprehension isn't one of your strong traits.
You read statements like
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...593607,00.html

"
Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD.
But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.
"

and

"
It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran.
"


and still believe your role model didn't have any pre-conceived notions of his own? Spouting diplomacy months after already fixing policy around a thin argument? basing his (faulty) intelligence on items the Office of Special Plans picked out of CIA reviews? CIA reviews which they stated, were not reliable (ie Nigerian Uranium) yet the OSP pushed them anyway? Howbout the time W's hoods punished those who said otherwise? (Wilson/Plame)

these DSM documents would have probably stayed classified for 50+ years before people could know the truth, had it not been leaked out prematurely.


>>who are you calling ignorant, again?

>Since you are obviously ignoring certain salient facts that tend
>to disprove your preconcieved notions and continuing biased beliefs,

*lol* you're joking? you can't be serious? you can't throw rocks in a glass house.

howbout telling me that the DSM was a to-do list of things to prepare for, and we'll leave it at that. they speak for themselves.

i can't help it if you can't understand what it means, in light of what W's crew were saying vs. what they were planning. after all, it was not for public consumption because it would have made liars out of them.


>>tellya what, in this day and age, I can play "god"
>Only in your mind.
>I dont care if you can pick the sex or eye color of your child,
>that does not make you the Creator from whom our natural rights emminate.

you don't read alot of books, do ya? We all started from something. did i already mention that we share like, 90% of the DNA of a chimpanzee? or was that a monkey, i forget. do you even know what the Human Genome Project was about? ever read any of Sitchin's archaeology books? The source materials for the Bible? The Adam and the Noah/Utnapishtam/AtraHasis connections in Sumerian tablets?


>Did you know that it is liberals who think like you that are preventing
>genetically engineered food from being grown that would help alleviate much of
>the famine in the world by being resistance to drought, disease and insects?

you mean the Monsanto guys trying to sell seeds that can't be re-sown because they don't bear seeds? the "one shot" seeds that you have to buy over and over again if you want a decent harvest?
Don't know anything about it. Not my area of interest.


>Listening to you left wingers of today it sounds as if you are all hoping for the
>US defeat in the war on terror simply so President Bush wont get any credit for
>a victory.

if your leader lies to you so that he can line the pockets of his supporters with cash, in exchange for the blood our loyal, honorable soldiers, wouldn't you be a little concerned? i believe our armed forces should be protecting our borders, not expanding them.

the name of the game is oil for blood, for the rich.


>The fact is by repeating the lies you keep repeating...

please point them out and lets discuss.


>>The British only had to lose Yorktown to lose the war

>Ridiculous.
>Obviously your understanding of the Revolutionary War specifically
>and military strategy in general is somewhat suspect and limited to say the least.

you crack me up. you do realize that Yorktown was the last major battle of the revolution and that the Brits had decided during and after, that it was futile to persist. Up until that point, they were confident that they would restore law and order to the rebellious colonies.


>These were the things we were fighting to prevent by stopping the spread of communism,
>since where ever communism advances genocide is soon to follow

ever wonder if it was because of U.S. intervention, disturbing the balance of power, that brought on the genocide? it would be a sound military move in my book. usurp the local dictator so that his rivals can kill each other to see who leads? its working in Iraq.

anywayz, we didn't win that war, people woke up about 5 years into it and decided there were better things to put their tax money into, than fighting an endless war that couldn't be won. i mean, even if after Communist Vietnam was conquered, there was still Russia, then China. the 'War on Communism' just wasn't winnable.

Do you think we'll win this 'War on Terrorism'? I wonder how naive one has to be, in order to think its an attainable goal.


>>The Gulf of Tonkin incident was bogus>>

>This is old news, what is your point? President Johnson was a crook, we all know that.

thought that was Nixon.
but i'm sure LBJ sure got rich from Vietnam. we all know this incident was used to fuel and justify an escalation of Vietnam. i guess you're agreeing in your own way, that that war, was about money. not about holding back any red tides.
howbout them baby-killin Commies today?!


>I think you are traitors because your actions are helping our enemies defeat the US,
>and that is the very definition of treason.

so you're saying i should not point out any elephants in the room else i'm not a patriotic American? didn't Gore once state that W was selling out his country? ever wonder if the enemy is us?
what does 'hubris' mean?

don't you get it? we don't have any enemies except the ones we create. everyone in the world wanted to be us, until now. and if not for our bill of rights, we wouldn't be the great country we once were. i think it was repealed by the Patriot act, but the jury's still out on that one.


> I doubt I will learn anything from any of you spoiled, self-absorbed ...
> I already know what they are.

my, my, evolving with every day i see.

when the republican party returns to what I believed in them for, i'd give them more credence. they no longer believe in small government or lower taxes. they still believe in leaving businesses alone, they've de-regulated to allow crooks to take advantage of the system. they've bloated bureaucracy and indebted the people that trusted them. but they did manage to lower taxes...for the ultra-rich. and the democrats are no better. they just didn't have the oil money to buy the elections this go around.

wake up buddy. you're being lied to. go do something about it. tell someone.

[kathaksung]

Originally Posted by Defiant Noquisi

Why is it that even after hundreds of years people dont realize that it was made possible to criticize and question the government and its leaders?

?

I wish this kind of people who labels others all around were only out of a narrow mind. But most likely they may be paid to do this kind of harassing job. This is a police state.

------------

10. "Sleep with the stock paper", better forever(8/9/05)

When I have learned the rare data about average investor's return (3.7%), I was surprised that how such a data could be leaked from a tight censorship net of Inside Group.They want people sleeping in the dream that stock market is a gold mine with high profit gain.

A lot of people thought because company having a good business, so stock could be sold at a higher price. That the profit of stock trading was from the wealth comapny created. It's wrong. The wealth company created were distributed by dividend. Even some CEO re-invest or buy back the stock, the money they spent is still a steal from the dividend that shareholders deserved. The reality is sellers profit (or loss) came from the money paid by buyers not from company.

If a company had a profit margin at 1.00/share, and stock price was $10.00, when it makes 1.20/share next year, should the stock price be raised to $12.00? Not neccessarily. When buyers is tight with money. It could be still $10.00 or even a loss, $9.00. It depends on the supply and demand - the stock for sale and new fund willing to invest.

The Nasdag collapsing in 2000 is such sample. When Inside Group thought it was time to harvest, they poured out the stock they held. The investment fund couldn't maintain the usual price, a collapse took place. Did high tech. business had trouble then. No, they still made same profit as usual. But when there was not enough fund going to the market to buy increased amount of stock for sale, the stock price dropped to the bottom too. Nasdaq index lost 2/3 from 5000 to 1700. Those who slept with stock paper with the dream of high profit gain lost their most. The loser is always average investor.

I re-read that "Break the buy-high, sell-low pattern". I found the point of article is: "And that's where some of the good news comes in. Investors slowed the rate of redemptions last year to a pace that would lengthen average stock-fund ownership to 4.2 years. (the 20 years average is 2.9 years) " It advised that if people could hold the stock longer, the return would be better. So in the end it wrote, "As a long-time practitioner of dollar cost averaging, I can note one other benefit: You don't have to make a lot of decisions and you don't second-guess yourself. So you sleep better."

The purpose of the article is clear. With the release of data, it wants you hold the stock not for trading. The longer the better. In last message "9. How to blow a balloon bigger" I've told of the best way to boost stock price is to reduce the quantity of stock for selling. It will make them easy to blow the balloon bigger and delay the crisis from exploding. That's why Inside group want you "don't make a lot of decisions and sleep" on that paper. Better forever.

[kathaksung]

11. Squeeze every bit of your retirement fund to support a stock market balloon.

Read my message "9. How to blow a balloon bigger" you know There are two ways to keep stock price from falling. The two articles from Mercury News show how this government and the media they controlled are working hard to push every bit of money to the stock market to keep the balloon from exploding.

1. One way is try to find every bit of money available in 401(k).

Re: "Automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans is endorsed

Workers must choose not to contribute

By Jack Sirard, Sarcramento Bee

..... Studies show that up to 20 percent of employees who are eligible to join theri
comany's 401(k) plan fail to do so.

..... Automatic enrollment, which is a growing trend nationally, changes a worker's decision from having to choose to join a 401(k) to having to choose not to join. "
(Mercury News, 7/24/05)

Thus the 20% workers who haven't made up their mind are automatically being pushed into an investment pension fund.

2. The other way to keep the stock price from falling is to reduce the stock for selling.
Re: "Almost half of job-switchers cash out 401(k)s

By Kaja Whitehouse, Dow Jones

Almost half, or 45%, of all workers who left their employer last year opted to cash out their 401(k) savings, according to a new study. .....

Employers would often force distributions for accounts worth less than $5,000 because they found them too costly to maintain. .....

Under the new rules, employers are required to either maintain small balances - defined as anything between $1,000 and $5,000 - or automatically roll the money into an IRA when workers depart. This way, workers with small balances will only take their money in cash if they take the initiative to do so. "
(Mercury News, 7/26/05)

This is how they push workers to join 401(k) investment plan, and try their best to prevent workers from cashing their 401(k) portfolios, even if it's a small amount.

[kathaksung]

12. Paper value (9/2/05)

Why did I say people who bought the stock are sleeping on a paper? Because if it is liqudated, most likely you will get little money back. And CEO of these big firms don't work for the interest of shareholders but for the interest of Inside Group.

Five years ago, when managers of pension fund held billions of Enron's stock, they never knew they were holding only a bunch of pieces of papers which worth nothing. Did Enron lost its value in one night or just in a short period? No. A lot of firms are run in same way. What about GM? It's bond was ranked as junk recently. What does that mean? It means GM is in same level like Enron had been. The debt it owes is much bigger than its asset. The long term bond GM issued is about 300 billions. Compare to Iraq war, its cost is only 68 billion a year. Yet, GM is still an foundamental stock of Dow Jones index. How many other comanies are in the same level?

Since stock market is such a market full of balloon. Those expert who know it deeply avoid to get involve in it. Here is an article published recently.

"Greenspan invests cautiously

By Jeannines Aversa, AP,

Greenspan keeps all of his holdings in money-market accounts and Treasury securities, which are considered the world's safest investment, a financial disclosure form shows."

(Mercury News, 7/29/2005)

Further more. on 8/27/05, Mercury News reported:

"It can 'readily disappear' if economy stumbles

Rising house and stock prices have made many people feel more wealthy and have helped to support consumer spending.

Greenspan, however, said people shouldn't count on that paper wealth, which can evaporate if economic conditions deterriorate rapidly."

I have repeatedly said the stock is no other than a paper in this thread. Seven days ago, Greespan's comment proved my opinion.

[kathaksung]

Roberts, a secret agent of D.O.J.

Roberts ducked important questions Demo asked him in hearing. So at the end he is mostly a man of unknown to the people. This is a typical figure of D.O.J.: hide everything with a cover. Does everything in covert.

Is he a speculist? After he refuses to show his stand, he can later turn out to be red, or if necessary, to be blue. Or just a flip-flop. This is a typical figure of secret agent. They really have no interest in any side. They only favour what their master favours. So they really have no opinion.

He will be selected as the judge of Supreme Court. Because that's the choice of Inside Group. Bush is only a puppet to deliver the words. Demo Senators only played a little bit what opposition Party should do. They knew Roberts will take over the seat. All this is a drama.

But when you select a general, how can you don't know his opinion about war? (his excuse is he only can answer in specific battle) How can you select a CEO for the company who refuse to express his idea about economy?

When US politics develops to this point that an mostly unknown person can take such an important job, is this drama too ridiculous? Bush administration even sealed Roberts record from public.

Roberts is more likely an secret agent who will work for the Feds, (D.O.J.) and the real master behind - Israel.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Kathaksung, Ive asked a few times in this thread as well as today in another thread and here again where you get your information from. Are these posts of your own creation or are you copying anothers work? If you have answered me before Im sorry but I did not see it.

[kathaksung]

These are my own opinion based on facts. (I used to put URL for the information I got.) You can get most of my messages at:

http://hometown.aol.com/kathaksung/m...e/profile.html
http://hometown.aol.com/sunkat563/my...e/profile.html
http://hometown.aol.com/katsung563/m...e/profile.html

If there is harassment (blank page, slow entering, server busy....) try

http://forums.delphiforums.com/polic...sages/?msg=1.1

--------------

D.O.J. hurriedly sent Roberts to the seat of Chief Justice is for the framed case of September 24, I think. My case is the most important one for D.O.J. since I reveal the true face (crime) of them. To frame a case, they even sacrifice both directors of FBI and DEA in a secret deal in 2001.

On 5/10/2002, I wrote "65. Birthday Party on May 3 (5/10)", revealed there was an attempt framed case on me and my family on 5/3. Several days later, my tenant and a neighborhood suddenly left.(both were from China. see #85, 86) It was until three months later when newspaper reported Ashcroft had been rebuked by judge in May for cheating the court, I then knew I was under the surveillance by FISA warrant. When judge found they were cheated by Ashcroft and FBI, they cancelled the warrant. Two Chinese secret police, my tenant and a neighborhood, had to leave.

The surveillance recovered in November 2002 when D.O.J. claimed Patriot Act gave them such power. But how could they frame an innocent man without evidence? They still need evidence to carry out an arrest.

Since then, D.O.J. tried their best to "break" the wall of "share information from foreign intelligence" with "domestic criminal law enforcement". The recent "Pentagon's information about Atta" is such an effort.

This issue must have been passed into Supreme Court. I think, Chief Justice William Rehnquist had defended the fourth Amendment of the Constitution. Thus he became the obstacle of D.O.J.. He had a cancer.

If Rehnquist's health condition was very bad, he would have resigned earlier. But he hadn't. That means he himself felt he was still OK for the job. His death was sudden. I think it was a controlled murder. I have said, "2. Control the death on will. They can make target getting sick by slow poison, once the death is necessary for Feds, what they have to do is just increase the dose, the target died to intelligence' demand without causing a suspicion." (186. Slow poison (12/6/03))

When I found there was another big framed case set up on 9/24, I revealed it on 9/2. (see "339. The September plot (9/2/05)") Next day, Chief Rehnquist died. Roberts is hurried to be nominated and said his confirmation is almost certain and will be in post in October. Because the framed case will break off on 9/24. D.O.J. needs a man of their own to guarantee the case can be set up by "sharing foreign intelligence information with domestic criminal law enforcement"

William Rehnquist's death and Roberts' nomination may signal the death of 4th Amendment that American people will lose the protection from "unreasonable search and arrest". US Justice will be ruled by an evil group.

(The 4th Amendment has been made to protect people from the "plant" of corruptive law enforcement force. That the warrant must based on evidence not the "plant". The "sharing information" low the standard to "suspicion" (foreign intelligence source) and made search and arrest possible based on "plant". see "335. 4th Amendment (8/17/05)")

[kathaksung]

13. Fallacy (9/12/05)

Fallacy 1. "Politicians stole all the extra SS tax money and spent them in the general fund for their own purpose."

Answer: The surplus of S.S. tax are now in the form of "I.O.U." which is no difference to the national bond.

To the logic of fallacy, when people deposit their money in bank, he will rant: "The money is all gone. The bank spent it by lending it to the others. But what's the business with him how does bank spend the deposit? What people care is the bank will pay them back the deposit with interest.

In sameway, what's business with him when the Congress spend it in general fund? Only when they will pay it back with interest. Remember if they don't borrow from S.S.Trust fund, they still will borrow by issueing Treasury note.

Fallacy 2. "I like privatization because I can handle it by myself. I want have my own choice."

Answer: The original purpose to set up Social Security is to guarantee people will have a stable income when they retired. Privatization won't guarantee this. It put Social Security in a risk.

People pay insurance company. The payment is guaranteed to be used in retirement payment. Bush lured them to a casino, said that people may win more. The reality is people then will exchange their money with a paper its value may evaporate when economy turns downward.
It's not for a stable society but lead the society to an dangerous gamble.

Yes, there are many choice of gamble: Black Jack, slot machine.... but more you gamble more you will lose.

Fallacy 3. "Social Security will collapse".

Answer: It's an intimidation. A tactic Bush used to use all the time. He had cried, "sky is falling" 28 years ago, the sky didn't fall.
Re: 'For Bush, a Long Embrace of Social Security Plan
By RICHARD W. STEVENSON
Published: February 27, 2005

in the summer of 1978, in the heat of his unsuccessful race for a House seat from West Texas, G.W.Bush said Social Security "will be bust in 10 years unless there are some changes,"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/27/po...rtner=homepage

He scared us into an unnecessary war. He is now scaring us to give him the power to handle our retirement fund. But insolvency is 37 years away. (2042) If US could solve the same problem in 1978, so can they do in 2042. Bush has better to deal with the historical national deficit which he created. If he can't handle the war spending and disaster spending well, US economy will collapse much earlier than S.S. he intimidated.

[Defiant Noquisi]

Originally Posted by kathaksung

These are my own opinion based on facts. (I used to put URL for the information I got.) You can get most of my messages at:

Okay, thanks for that info.

[kathaksung]

335. 4th Amendment (8/17/05)

These days, Feds activate a wave in Internet to propaganda on "eliminate the wall erected to prevent the sharing information from foreign with domestic criminal law enforcement." Said the wall caused the success of 911 attack. It's an attack at the Constitution - the 4th amendment. times Feds set up traps in my case. One was to change the roof of my house. The other one was to change the garage door. I alleged Feds had planted drugs in my attic and in my garage. They planned to carry out a search and arrest by guise as the roofing or the garage door contractor.

Why couldn't they direct search and arrest? Fourth amendment forbid them to do so. They couldn't apply a search warrant on suspicion. They must have evidence. But I am innocent man, they have no evidence. What they can do is plant. But for that plant they still need a reason to get a search warrant.

Because it's easy for them to get the foreign collaboration to get a "useful" information. Then to get a FISA warrant which is easy to get. An unreasonable search and arrest could be done if the "information sharing" is allowed.

If the wall was broken, every citizen will lose the protection of the 4th amendment from unreasonable search and arrest. Everyone can be the victim of Feds' planting.

Here I repeat the message I posted before. D.O.J. is desperately to attack that protect wall.

Re post: Ashcroft had accused, and now it's his accessories are accusing Jamie Gorelick erected the "wall" between the FBI and the CIA that kept them from sharing intelligence and possibly from doing more to prevent the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. That because FBI feared to touch that wall, they hadn't applied a permission to search suspect Zacarias Moussaoui's computer, so they lost chance to stop the 911 attack in advance.

This is a blackmail.

There are two ways for FBI to apply a search warranty from Judge. One is by FISA court.(Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) In which a warranty is in a very low standard and is easy to get. The other way is by criminal law court which is in high standard because Americans are protected by 4th amendment from unreasonable search and arrest.

When Ashcroft and FBI said there is a wall to block sharing information between foreign information and criminal investigation, he is demanding a big police power expanding which makes the 4th amendment mean nothing. He then can search and arrest American citizen at his will, only based on suspicion(FISA standard is low) while we should be protected by criminal law from being unreasonable search and arrest. (must based on evidence)

D.O.J. use Moussaoui's case as a reason, said because the FBI feared to touch the wall of criminal law so they didn't investigate Moussaoui's computer. It's hypocrite and is a misleading. We don't have to be a professional like A.G. or FBI to know that Moussaoui is a foreigner and fits for FISA. Why FBI hadn't apply FISA(obviously an easy one) but considered the domestic criminal law? And why they even didn't apply? It is incompetence, a mistake, or a deliberate negligence? Many information revealed that the government knew 911 attack in advance, it was allowed to happen. Because they benefit from it.

FBI didn't apply a warrant from FISA, they say because they are afraid to touch that wall. A man caught driving without a license. He said because he was afraid he won't pass the road test so he hadn't apply one. Could a judge justify that reason? As a matter of fact, the FISA standard is very low, if FBI had applied one, they for sure would get it. But they hadn't.

What D.O.J. wants is to give FBI more police power to search and arrest people. They want to low the standard of criminal law. That's a blackmail in the name of "war on terrorism".

BTW, there is a deep meaning of "erect the wall of sharing information" . In fact, intelligence share the information already. The reality is they can't use that information to apply a search warrant because it's illegal. The wall prevent they use FISA standard on domestic criminal case.

Theoretically, FBI can't spy a citizen unless they have evidence the man has committed crime. When this "sharing information wall" is broken, now they can search a citizen covertly only on suspicion. Because the FISA standard is low.

This is the real purpose of D.O.J.. And it claimed the"Patriot Act" gave it such privilege.
The fact is, under the "Patriot Act", Bush and D.O.J. expand their fascist police power. American people are losing the protect from "unreasonable search and arrest" of the 4th amendment.

Government and media never tell people about this. They steal the civil liberty in the name of security. You are losing your constitutional right.

[kathaksung]

346. Police detain and DNA plant (10/2/05)

Although 9/24 case was postponed, new framed case developed immediately. There were two articles in Mercury News at same time.

"False arrest verdict reversed" (9/24/05)

"The federal jury in San Jose had found that officer William Foster, 37, had no probable cause to arrest Laura B. McIntyre. She was arrested after touching Foster's badge to get his identification.

US district Judge James Ware, reconsidering laws at issue in the case at the city's request, reversed his earlier decisions, disregarded the jury's verdict and issued a Wednesday(9/21) ruling in favor of Foster."

(McIntyre, who had just graduated with honors, was attending a party on 2/8/01. When police told guests to leave to a complaint, she put two fingers on Foster's badge to see the numbers. She was arrested for committing a battery.)

"Bill would force DNA collection" (9/25/05)

"Washington - Suspects arrested or detained by federal authorities could be forced to provide samples of their DNA that would be recorded in a central database under a provision of a Senate bill to expand government collection of personal data.

The measure was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee last week and is supported by the White House, but has not gone to the floor for a vote. It goes beyond current law, which allows federal authorities to collect and record samples of DNA only from those convicted of crimes. The data is stored in an FBI-maintained national registry that law enforcement officials use to aid investigations, by comparing DNA from criminals with evidence found at crime scenes."

The purpose of two articles is very clear. To justify unreasonable search and arrest and then to frame the victim by DNA planting. DNA(a hair, skin, semen) like drugs, can be planted easily. The provision opens the gate for corrupted Feds. They can find an excuse to detain people. Then frame him in a crime case. No evidence needed. What they need to do is to declare the detainee's DNA is identical to one found in criminal scene. I believe Feds now are busy to plant my DNA in old unsolved case.

347. Abandon the Constitution (10/7/05)

The 4th Amendment was set up to protect people from "planting" of corruptive law enforcement. Feds can not arrest people simply because they can find drugs in his property. It is unreasonable search and arrest. They must have evidence the man charged had practically involved in drug case. So the 4th Amendment protect us from "planting".

I allege Feds planted drugs in my attic and garage. Twice they try to frame cases by disguising roof contractor or garage door contractor. (see "144. Roof contractor from Idaho", "300. Garage door".)

This time they use DNA plant. They say now the DNA forced test of suspects is allowed. It opens the gate of "police planting". It's easy to detain people in a dispute with police. Then to prosecute them by DNA evidence. DNA, like drugs, can be planted easily. Innocent people, while commit no crime, can be conveniently framed in a case.

Now what's the meaning for 4th Amendment?

[kathaksung]

348. "Witness" team (10/7/05)

After Feds got the bill of "forced DNA test", the rest thing was to arrange a police detain. For which they even made a judge disregarded a jury's verdict, reversed his own decision to issue a new ruling to encourage unreasonable search and arrest.(see #436)

On 9/28, I took a walk around the block. I saw an unusual lively street. A resident and a yard worker talked at the entrance of the lane. Cross street, there was a van of heater company with three people. When I turned into the side street, I saw two young men with a broken car, and a technician of AAA emergency car. There were five people walking on the path in the small park next block. There was even a lady with Arabic dress. This was the first time I saw an Arab in my community. Wah, I thought, Feds activated so large resource to carry out an arrest. When I got back to my home, a car arrived at cross street house just opposite the lane. Five people got off the car, hugging, walking around, made a noise. These people, would play the role of "reliable witness" if a police arrest carried out.

On 10/4 about 10 pm at night, I saw a towing car parked cross street. I went out to have a look. Then I saw a row of 4 cars slowly drove through. The last one was a police car. I think it was an "arrest work team" on their night shift with three potential witnesses and a police.

In recent decade, when Feds occupied most houses in my area, it becomes a desert area. Rarely I saw a child here. When I had a walk seldom I saw a resident. Sometimes I could see one or two people walking in the park. So a sudden surge of more than a dozen people was very unusual for me. And for a quiet community (most residents are agents and their support group), a police car was a rarity too.

I believe there will be a search and arrest ready for me. It's not accidental but a well planned one. Feds even prepared a lot of "reliable witnesses" for it. Though I'll try to avoid any conflict with police, what people heard will be another story.

349. Warning (10/7/05)

People read my thread know the tactic Feds used to distract the frame case. A "terror attack" and a natural disaster to rouse the panic that will divert public's attention from a criminal case committed by Feds.

1. Symptoms of a "terror attack". On 10/6 Bush said 10 terror plots were foiled. He labels Iraq being the central battleground in the war on terror. The language he used was the strongest to date which may indicate he strongly believe there will be "terror attack" to happen to strengthen his political position.

In same day, Mayor of New York, Bloomberg, said the FBI had informed him about "a specific threat" that 19 suicide bombers planned to hit the subway system.

These are typical pre-advanced propaganda. A bombing will happen, but Feds has no responsibility. Because they have given you a warning in advance.

2. A bio-attack. This time it is avian-flu. The propaganda include with: "Mysterious 16 deaths in Canada.", and WHO said the pandemic will probably kill more than 50 million people in the world.

Two days ago Bush said to deal with such pandemic he may use troops to quarantine. For a president who was so incompetent to react to a pre-warned hurricanes, how could he be so active in a disease in which not a case is found in US?

I worry there will be a slaughter in the name of pandemic after they frame a case on me.

[kathaksung]

350. Boy George and drug charge (10/12/05)

When I wrote that the recent tactic Feds using is to arrest in the name of drug charge by unreasonable search, there was a swift re-action.

"Boy George held on drug charges" (Mercury News, 10/9/05)

Police said Boy George called 911 to report a burglary on Friday(10/8) in New York."When police showed up, they found no evidence of a burglary but did find a small amount of cocaine near a computer in his apartment." Boy George was arrested on drug charge.

The case was a framed one, I think. It was a model demonstration to instruct how Feds to act on my case aggressively. In local TV news that night,(10/9) there were pictures that residents of San Jose complained how their houses were intruded by strangers. Next day on 10/10 in the evening, there was a knock at the door. It was a young man. I didn't answer it. He took a walk in my front yard then left.

In previous two attempted frame cases, Feds tried to disguise as contractors of roofing or garage door. I had a look at these two places but couldn't find anything suspicious. It's impossible to search the garage because too much stuff was piled up there. I once puzzled that how the disguised contractor could declare they finding the drug in concealed place where no others could see. Boy George's case solved my problem. George had no motive to tell a lie to call police to his home that led to his arrest. Once police were at his home, the rest words were all theirs. It's too convenient to say there was no evidence of burglary and they found drugs near George's computer.

What they need is to find an excuse that they are legally there. So the search and arrest would be reasonable. Roofing, garage door repair and burglary were all tactics to create an invitation. To make unreasonable search and arrest legal. Once they were there, the rest story was written by themselves.

To make sure they can finish the case as fast as they can, Feds also planned individual search and arrest. For which they prepared many potential "reliable witnesses". To guarantee the success of the plan, they even murdered (I allege) Rehnquist and send a man of their own to be the Chief Justice.