Wave to God?

[acacia]

What's all this mean with people that hold their hands up in the air at church?

Is this part of some ritual?

Is this just certain religions that do this?

What does it mean?

[Cartesiantheater]

It's a symbol of surrender to God, more of less. It's letting go of everything, including your pride (embarrassment at doing it in front of everyone), as an act of worship. I think surrendering is the best analogy.


I mean, it is the same thing people do on their knees when they worship, moving their hands like they are fanning someone or something.

[acacia]

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

It's a symbol of surrender to God, more of less. It's letting go of everything, including your pride (embarrassment at doing it in front of everyone), as an act of worship. I think surrendering is the best analogy.


I mean, it is the same thing people do on their knees when they worship, moving their hands like they are fanning someone or something.

Hmmmmm.........speculating, huh?




Goldmoon....why can't you put something in your own words instead of all spamming with all these videos?

Is this guy your idol?




You need to learn to express yourself. Practice writing three or four sentences for an answer.

[Goldmoon]

Cartesian's answer was good, I won't bother.

I'm just surprised that he can know that, but be against Christ.

[acacia]

Originally Posted by Goldmoon

Cartesian's answer was good, I won't bother.

I'm just surprised he can know that, but be against Christ.

Cartesian has not done his homework.
His answer is a guess; a speculation of sorts.
Making the event what he imagines it to be.
I really thought he was smarter than that.

[acacia]

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

It's a symbol of surrender to God, more of less. It's letting go of everything, including your pride (embarrassment at doing it in front of everyone), as an act of worship. I think surrendering is the best analogy.


I mean, it is the same thing people do on their knees when they worship, moving their hands like they are fanning someone or something.

Just thought I would preserve it. Will revisit these thoughts later.

[Goldmoon]

So you're going to tell us that its some kind of Dagon Sun Worship thing. I assure you, its not.

If you're going to make a thread about it, why play dumb? Why not just explain yourself in the beginning. Its a bit of a game that you play.

You will stop at nothing.
__________________________

In the book of Jude, he quotes Enoch. This is what Enoch said:

Jude 14-19

14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these men, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with tens of thousands (Millions) of His saints,

15: To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

16: These are murmerers, complainers, walking after their own lusts, and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, seeking the admiration of men because of advantage.

17: But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:

18: How that they told you there would be mockers in the last days, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19: These are they who separate themselves, sensual, not having the spirit.

[acacia]

Originally Posted by Goldmoon

So you're going to tell us that its some kind of Dagon Sun Worship thing. I assure you, its not.

If you're going to make a thread about it, why play dumb? Why not just explain yourself in the beginning. Its a bit of a game that you play.

You will stop at nothing.
__________________________

I am just curious to know what the general consensus is about it. I would like to know if people "assume" their own ideas of what it means or whether they have been instructed that it means something in particular.

When did this kind of thing with the hands in the air get started? Is it recent within the last 20 years, or maybe 30? When did it start?

Is it a pentecostal thing?

Do baptists and lutherans do it, too?

Have you ever heard it called a "wave offering"?

I would like to know what church folks have been told about this and why they play "monkey see- monkey do" without knowing what may be behind it.

That is why I ask these questions, Goldie.

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by Goldmoon

Cartesian's answer was good, I won't bother.

I'm just surprised that he can know that, but be against Christ.

Why thank you, sir. I do remember these things. And I'm not against Christ my friend. I am against blind dogmatism that crosses into the public sphere to the point that it annoys me.

Originally Posted by acacia

Cartesian has not done his homework.
His answer is a guess; a speculation of sorts.
Making the event what he imagines it to be.
I really thought he was smarter than that.

Wrong. It comes from personal experience. I lived that for years. The only reason I phrased it in a speculative manner is because I am "smart" enough to know that the way my little Christian sub-culture worshiped, and the reasons for it, may not be the same as other little Christian sub-cultures. Savvy? Simply an effort to preserve logical generality.

[acacia]

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

Wrong. It comes from personal experience. I lived that for years. The only reason I phrased it in a speculative manner is because I am "smart" enough to know that the way my little Christian sub-culture worshiped, and the reasons for it, may not be the same as other little Christian sub-cultures. Savvy? Simply an effort to preserve logical generality.

CT, in your previous quote, you said this was a "symbol of surrender to god".

How did this "symbol" get started?
Was this the dictates of a preacher?
Is there some scriptural requirement of this gesture?


Thanks for your input.

[DontBeAfraid]

Look, god likes to smite people... nay, god LOVES to smite people! When you address god you better be quick to show it your hands... lest god scratches an itchy trigger finger.

[Goldmoon]

Don'tBeAfraid: Look, god likes to smite people... nay, god LOVES to smite people! When you address god you better be quick to show it your hands... lest god scratches an itchy trigger finger.

God punishes those who are wicked, those who love evil, and have no regard for Him.

He has been patient in His judgements, and gives them time to turn to Him.
________________________________

I just picked up an really old 2nd hand paraphrased Tyndale version of the Bible today, here is what it says about Judgement in the book of Jude:

Jude 14-

Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, knew about these men and said this about them: "See, the Lord is coming with millions of His holy ones. He will bring the people of the world before him in judgement, to recieve just punishment, and to prove the terrible things they have done in rebellion against God, revealing all they have said against Him."

These men are constant gripers, never satisfied, doing whatever evil they feel like; they are loud-mouthed "show-offs," and when they show respect for others, it is only to get something from them in return.

Dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ told you, that in the last times there would come these scoffers whose whole purpose in life is to enjoy themselves in every evil way imaginable. They stir up arguments; they love the evil things of the world; they do not have the Holy Spirit living in them.

I wrote it out straight from the book, most of you are quite smart, if you read this, you can match it up to some of the people in our world today.

Pretty much common sense where the separation factor comes in. I think most would agree that there are people like that.

We can just be thankful we're not like that, right?

[acacia]

Originally Posted by Goldmoon

God punishes those who are wicked, those who love evil, and have no regard for Him.

He has been patient in His judgements, and gives them time to turn to Him.
________________________________

I just picked up an really old 2nd hand paraphrased Tyndale version of the Bible today, here is what it says about Judgement in the book of Jude:


We can just be thankful we're not like that, right?

11The Pharisee [j]took his stand ostentatiously and began to pray thus before and with himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men--extortioners (robbers), swindlers [unrighteous in heart and life], adulterers--or even like this tax collector here.

I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

(Luke 18) Goldmoon, the Pharisee








BTW, Goldmoon, when you make attempts to change the subject matter of a thread it is called HIJACKING. I just want you to understand that. Because if you do it again I will neg rep you for hijacking. Stay on topic.

[AnneOminous]

I thought it might have something to do with all these church shootings...

[acacia]

Originally Posted by AnneOminous

I thought it might have something to do with all these church shootings...

You mean they are holding up their hands in the air cos they think it's a "stick up"?

haha. That's pretty funny.

But I think most of them empty their pockets voluntarily when the preacher sends the pot around and gives them the "shake -down" speech.

[Cyranothe2nd]

In my experience, its evangelical Charismatics that do the raised hands thing--we didn't do that at my dad's fundy Baptist church but I've seen it when mom went to Assembly of God and the Foursquare churches.

There are Bible verses that support it--Psalm 134:2, 1 Timothy 2:8

“Lift up your hands in the sanctuary and praise the Lord.”

“I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.”

Also, as CT said, its a gesture of surrender to God, as Moses did on the mountain top. The early church fathers probably did it but somewhere it got lost in the liturgy, where it was revived with the Quakers first, then the Charismatic movement in the late 1800's.

[AnneOminous]

Back in the day--- you are right. Folks used to look up toward the heavens (above) and raise their hands up, palms outstretched in anticipation of what they might receive from God in the way of blessing, daily sustenance, or answer to all kinds of requests.

They knew it was not by their own goodness that they were sustained, but by His.

The habit of bowing ones' head came into vogue when prayers were written formally and then read from a page--- kind of hard to refer to your notes with your hands and eyes turned up toward heaven if you know what I mean.

-As if it is by our words that we unlock the key to God's heart.

[acacia]

Have you ever heard it called "a wave offering"?

[AnneOminous]

No- I've never heard it called that.

Have you ever heard of the original practice called a shadow of what was to come?

The wave offering was in conjunction with Passover--- of Egypt, Pharoah, and -Let my people go- fame. It was like waving the green flag that started the Indy 500 lap counting to the Day of Pentacost. (50 days versus 500 laps).

The wave offering-- Unleavened (un-risen) bread.
7 days of celebration leading up to the Passover sacrifice.
3 days in the tomb.
40 days of ministry after the resurrection.

50 days total from the lifting up of the firstfruits wave offering to the ascending (lifting up) of the Risen Bread and the giving of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentacost.

Or something like that.

[acacia]

In the cutting up of the victim, however, the breast and the right shoulder (Septuagint brachion; Vulgate armus) had to be first separately severed, and the ceremony of "wave" (tenupha) and "heave" (teruma) performed with them.

According to Talmudic tradition the "wave" was performed as follows: the priest placed the breast of the victim on the hands of the offerer, and then, having placed his own hands under those of this person, moved them backward and forward in token of the reciprocity in giving and receiving between God and the offerer.

With the right shoulder the same ceremony was then performed, except that the "heave" or "teruma" consisted in an upward and downward movement.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13309a.htm

[proffett]

When I was Penticostal (and I was die hard) we did this just because it felt good, it felt great to just let the music or prayer fill you and let go of ego and immerse yourself in it all.

Now, as a spiritualist with Mystical tendencies, I see the raising of the palms to the air as a way to accept Divine or Universal energy. In Reiki, I use my hands to control the energetic flow. Your palms accept and expel energy.

[acacia]

From the quote from the new advent:

In the cutting up of the victim, however, the breast and the right shoulder (Septuagint brachion; Vulgate armus) had to be first separately severed, and the ceremony of "wave" (tenupha) and "heave" (teruma) performed with them.

According to Talmudic tradition the "wave" was performed as follows: the priest placed the breast of the victim on the hands of the offerer, and then, having placed his own hands under those of this person, moved them backward and forward in token of the reciprocity in giving and receiving between God and the offerer.

Because the sacrifice is called a victim and also a person in the second paragraph....this implies to me that this originated with human sacrifice.

There is more detail on this sacrifice at the link.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13309a.htm

[weederbro]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but it made me think of how important the hands are as a symbol.
A person may talk this and that but what do they DO with their hands?
Do they heal/ create/ caress and serve or point , hit, destroy and manipulate to dishonest ends? And as all these things may be done by the same hands, what does one do with them MOSTLY? LOL
My avatar is a kirlian view of a hand.
Some would attribute a mystical meaning.
I like the image.

Anyway acacia, please reveal your point, it comes from ancient occult roots?

PS OK! you posted first! LOL
Yes I agree, as I have said before a while ago, Christianity can be seen as a pagan cult LOL!

[AnneOminous]

I like that Proffett. While I've never been pentacostal- I do understand the idea of self sacrifice in the way you describe it. Call this self-sacrifice "human" sacrifice if you want to acacia... it remains only a shadow or one dimensional picture of a much larger spiritual truth.

[AnneOminous]

Check it out Acacia-

Radical Redneck hands-in-the-air Republicans doing the wave offering thing for humans sacrificed...

Or maybe they are just asking God to bless the USA.

+ YouTube Video