Pakistan-India War 2009

[GEORGE SUTTON]

I just read an article regarding the global economic situation the world is presently in.I was shocked and alarmed and what the implications are for all of us.

http://www.squidoo.com/worldfinancialcrisis

With the western government's policy stated in this report,it would indicate that the western government need a long term solution to solve their domestic economic system.How is this possible?

When clearly they have followed and implemented the wrong economic policies that has resulted in a complete bankruptcy of their economies,what measures can they implement before civil unrest occurs in their own countries?

Are we witnessing the start of a new Pakistan-India War?

By creating a new war,the selling and buying of arms that will take place,would help the economies of USA,RUSSIA,CHINA,EUROPE.Is this another conspiracy?

[ryangti]

Well that depends on who wants to side with Pakistan and who decides to blame America.
Here is another report which seems quite alarming.
The chances of a terror attack on a major city somewhere in the world using weapons of mass destruction are better than even, according to a task force mandated by the U.S. Congress, The Washington Post reported in its Tuesday edition.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...4B11EG20081202

[medicvet]

even on odds, whoa that doesn't look good at all..this is definitely a 'when not if' scenario, and what the world will be like after the first mega terroristic attack there is no saying..money will be worthless..time to bring out the scales..

[medicvet]

Here's an article that shows some of the increasing tensions and concerns of India and Pakistan:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081202/...s_india_mumbai

[Perfectionist]

There has been "tension" in that part of the World for decades (thanks to British Divide & Rule policy ) ...... but despite the rhetoric, it will never lead to the use of nuclear weapons !! Chillax people !!

[Abyssal_Worm]

MY question on the matter remains: "When war does break out between the two, which side will the U.S. choose?"

[sonovah]

Naw...BIO weapons are next...nukes are old school.

[Freaked out]

Originally Posted by Perfectionist

There has been "tension" in that part of the World for decades (thanks to British Divide & Rule policy ) ...... but despite the rhetoric, it will never lead to the use of nuclear weapons !! Chillax people !!

Where the hell have you been? I thought you fell of the face of the earth. Good to see you're still around.

But, I disagree with your statement, and here's why - both India and Pakistan have nuclear missiles aimed at the other; there is no treaty or understanding between the two nations with respect to their respective nuclear doctrines and each has expressed variously that they would resort to nuclear weapons in response to an attack by conventional weapons. Add to that the very troubling fact that each has their missiles primed under an automatic detection & deployment system which means, the risk of accidental launch or launch on a false alarm is a grave possibility. Unlike Russia and the US which have at least some lead time, the time for the missiles to reach the other nation is minutes, there is no time to determine whether a potential strike is legitimate. You may call that suicidal, however; from the point of view of each nation to not launch in the face of nuclear bombardment is also sucidal. I think that, more than anything else, makes this a very tricky and tense situation.

While is is true that Pakistan and India have had some three wars since their inceptions (and countless skirmages) and no launches have occurred; Pakistan only began testing their nuclear arsenal in 1998 - only 10 years ago. So your theory has not been fully tested - they've not been at war with each other while at the same time each having nuclear weapons - so, I'm not sure that I'm eager for to try out the theory that nothing will happen.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1732430.stm

[ryangti]

Not since 2003 okay something even little can usually start wars,this was though a big deal and are looking someone to blame.
Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari denied his nation was involved in last week's deadly attacks on Mumbai, India, and told CNN on Tuesday he's seen no evidence that a suspect in custody is a Pakistani national as Indian officials claim.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...lkl/index.html
Alot of course has happened since 2003 with paksitan dominating the news of course in recent times,then there is the constant climate changes on top.
These can make many countries become unstable and as we know both are pretty desperate.

They of course have been fighting for 60 years so this mumbai attack could be a turning point in what direction they decide to pursuit.

Here are some refernces on how wars could start in the enviroment we live in.
Global warming could increase terrorism, official says
You all knew i would put this one up from june okay!
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS...ity/index.html
Thats one

With the shadow of extremism reaching beyond the borders of Pakistan and India, analysts say the stakes -- as the nuclear-armed rivals try to hang on to an uneasy peace -- are higher than ever in the wake of the Mumbai attacks.
We of course live in an unbalanced world and would say anything is now possible?
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...sis/index.html

[medicvet]

I would say that it is even odds that Pakistan and India could end up lobbing nukes..but as far as a nation attacking, yah nukes would be 'old school' because with bio warfare it kills people but leaves the resources behind. I would just like to know how far along scientists have gotten with genetic bio warfare experiments and research..to create a biological weapon that is tailor made to go after specific target groups/populations..

[Abyssal_Worm]

Originally Posted by medicvet

I would say that it is even odds that Pakistan and India could end up lobbing nukes..but as far as a nation attacking, yah nukes would be 'old school' because with bio warfare it kills people but leaves the resources behind. I would just like to know how far along scientists have gotten with genetic bio warfare experiments and research..to create a biological weapon that is tailor made to go after specific target groups/populations..

An airborne strain of Bird Flu comes to mind. Considering the kill rate that disease has in its current state, a weaponized version would be damn nasty. Especially if it targeted only those who carry specific chromosomes.

If it comes down to non-conventional weapons, I'd bet Anthrax or some sort of nerve gas would be at the top of the list. Though I highly doubt either nation would use them. The international backlash would be astounding to say the least.

And in the case of the nuclear weapons...just because someone has them it doesn't mean that they will actually use them. Only one nation has ever used them in a military manuever. Everyone else has chosen not to use them...yet.

[tasbin03]

or a false flag attack with no one to suspect you, pissing off two already pissed off nations...with nukes. I'd say Pakistani-Indian nuclear war would be pretty hefty ethnic cleansing, no? And no one would be the wiser, since hey, it was a "terrorist" attack.

[Perfectionist]

Originally Posted by Abyssal_Worm

MY question on the matter remains: "When war does break out between the two, which side will the U.S. choose?"

The US (like every other nation) will support and condemn BOTH sides ..... unless/until the conflict spreads and goes against their interests .....

Originally Posted by sonovah

Naw...BIO weapons are next...nukes are old school.

Very true ..... there is no point taking over a country after you have destroyed everything of value and irradiated the land for generations ..... Wars are fought to gain money and resources, not to cost money and eliminate resources

Originally Posted by Freaked out

Where the hell have you been? I thought you fell of the face of the earth.

I've been gallivanting across the Middle East for the past couple of months ..... between you and me, the Muslims were all non-terrorists and just living their daily lives like you and me ..... don't tell the Yanks as it may unsettle their belief system

Good to see you're still around. But, I disagree with your statement, and here's why

Good to see you're still as argumentative as ever Ally McBabe !!

both India and Pakistan have nuclear missiles aimed at the other

Exactly, if perhaps only one side had nukes then your foolish fear may have an iota of justification !!

there is no treaty or understanding between the two nations with respect to their respective nuclear doctrines and each has expressed variously that they would resort to nuclear weapons in response to an attack by conventional weapons.

Lets see now ..... would you expect them to say the opposite Babe ..... that we have atomic weapons but will probably never use them ?? Political sabre-rattling, nothing more !!

Add to that the very troubling fact that each has their missiles primed under an automatic detection & deployment system which means, the risk of accidental launch or launch on a false alarm is a grave possibility.

Every nuclear power has a designation of "auto-strike" missiles, not just Ind/Pak ..... it's part of their self-defence mechanism and is only activated as a last resort ..... the beauty of these systems is they are designed with a million safe-guards to invariably prevent an accidental or mistaken launch ..... therefore chillax foxy lady

Unlike Russia and the US which have at least some lead time, the time for the missiles to reach the other nation is minutes, there is no time to determine whether a potential strike is legitimate. You may call that suicidal

Indeed it is suicidal ..... which is precisely why it will never happen ..... understand that the Military mindset is all about taking action which will result in a win ..... not one where everybody loses

however; from the point of view of each nation to not launch in the face of nuclear bombardment is also sucidal. I think that, more than anything else, makes this a very tricky and tense situation.

The World is full of very tricky and tense situations ..... but Armageddon is more likely to be caused by a comet or a disease or an earthquake or even Aliens ..... Nuclear Holocaust is way down on the list of possibilities/probabilities !!

While is is true that Pakistan and India have had some three wars since their inceptions (and countless skirmages) and no launches have occurred; Pakistan only began testing their nuclear arsenal in 1998 - only 10 years ago. So your theory has not been fully tested - they've not been at war with each other while at the same time each having nuclear weapons - so, I'm not sure that I'm eager for to try out the theory that nothing will happen.

You do seem to instantly wet your pants whenever Nukes are mentioned Ally ..... shall I explain why this is ..... alrighty then .....

1) You are Female and a Civilian which means you think more emotionally than logically and so have a tendency to over-dramatise situations
2) You are Female and a Civilian which means you are more fearful and susceptible to scaremongering
3) You are Female and a Civilian so can have difficulty reading between the political lines and necessary military brinkmanship
4) You are Female and a Civilian so have no understanding of the entirely male personalities that make up the higher echelons of the military
5) You are Female and a Civilian so have only a superficial knowledge of military equipment and procedures
6) err ..... I think you get the point (which is you're only a girly non-soldier !! )

That's not to say your opinion (on this issue) isn't valid ..... it just isn't as credible as someone who is Male and has served in the Army .....

However, by all means worry yourself sick every time a cow farts in a field ..... hopefully though, you will consider taking on board my mutterings as this needless stress will rob you of your rather splendid looks Babe !!

Originally Posted by tasbin03

or a false flag attack with no one to suspect you, pissing off two already pissed off nations...with nukes. I'd say Pakistani-Indian nuclear war would be pretty hefty ethnic cleansing, no? And no one would be the wiser, since hey, it was a "terrorist" attack.

This is far more likely ..... yet still highly improbable

[Sandstorm]

Listen to this broadcast from BBC Radio 4 about the chain of command in Britain for launching nukes, it is really very interesting or at least for me it was as I am an ex-Polaris submariner. It assures me that humankind will never launch the "big" nukes, just battlefield or tactical only.

Medicvet I think you will like this.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode..._Human_Button/

[Sandstorm]

This is an interesting story.............could infuriate the Indians.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pak...257139413.html

[lycanox]

That does not mean that there aren't incidents where things almost went wrong.
An weird tactic from the other side could easily be seen as a reason to strike before it is too late. And there is always the chance that politicians underestimate the bomb and fires first.

Fact remains that the US did use nuclear weapons in a war.
Russia did give the order to nuke US assets during the Cuba crisis.
Reagan did fake an nuclear attack on Russia during the Vietnam war.

And there is a rather long list of accidents.

[gordon]

Pakistan-India War 2009

Ohh. They should have a nother cricket game, that should help.

[markiss666]

Originally Posted by lycanox

That does not mean that there aren't incidents where things almost went wrong.
An weird tactic from the other side could easily be seen as a reason to strike before it is too late. And there is always the chance that politicians underestimate the bomb and fires first.

Fact remains that the US did use nuclear weapons in a war.
Russia did give the order to nuke US assets during the Cuba crisis.
Reagan did fake an nuclear attack on Russia during the Vietnam war.

And there is a rather long list of accidents.

Reagan wasn't in the oval office during the Vietnam war last i knew

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[ryangti]

A wait and see scenario!
Rice goes into pakistan and to cooperate into the mumbai attacks and warned india against any action that could cause a conflict.
Oh i see now because America needs Pakistan on side so that they can carry on missile strikes on their borders right?
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...4B00LI20081203

[lycanox]

Originally Posted by markiss666

Reagan wasn't in the oval office during the Vietnam war last i knew

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My bad. It was Nixon.

[ryangti]

India now expects a 9/11 attack on airports!
India’s main airports were on a state of high alert last night amid fears that 14 terrorists given the same training as the Mumbai gunmen are preparing to mount a 9/11-type attack using hijacked passenger aircraft.


Lets hope not eh!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5289529.ece

[medicvet]

whoa..just in time for the holidays..I keep getting a BAD feeling about this.

[Perfectionist]

Originally Posted by Sandstorm

I am an ex-Polaris submariner

Nice meeting you NavyStorm, regards from an ex-ParaTrooper !!

It assures me that humankind will never launch the "big" nukes, just battlefield or tactical only

Abso-frikkin-lutely !! Nations will never use the "big guns" ..... the only chance of a major nuclear strike happening is through terrorism, and even then I believe it would be a "false-flag" operation ..... and still this is so unlikely that it's not worth worrying about .....

Originally Posted by lycanox

That does not mean that there aren't incidents where things almost went wrong.
An weird tactic from the other side could easily be seen as a reason to strike before it is too late. And there is always the chance that politicians underestimate the bomb and fires first.

You've been watching too many movies !!

Fact remains that the US did use nuclear weapons in a war

Yes they did ..... in a time when the enemy didn't have any nukes to fire back !! Things are a little different nowadays dude !!

Russia did give the order to nuke US assets during the Cuba crisis.
Reagan did fake an nuclear attack on Russia during the Vietnam war.

And there is a rather long list of accidents.

Kickass link LycaMod ..... after reading through all that it's understandable that your average civilian would feel Nuclear War is almost inevitable ..... but the point you're missing is that despite all these events (and many more to come in the future) ..... nothing happened !!

The beauty of having so much destructive power at your disposal, is that it gives you a moment of pause before you decide to go Rambo and fire away ..... often, a little hesitation and an opportunity to consider the consequences, is all that's required to avoid calamity ...... not to mention the fact that you'd be committing suicide anyway .....

The threat of Nuclear War is just another scare-tactic to keep the Sheeple docile and keep them distracted from the real issues

[Freaked out]

Originally Posted by Perfectionist

Kickass link LycaMod ..... after reading through all that it's understandable that your average civilian would feel Nuclear War is almost inevitable ..... but the point you're missing is that despite all these events (and many more to come in the future) ..... nothing happened !!

Well, just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. For example, I have never been in a car accident, does that preclude me somehow from being in one at some point in the future?

While it is true that the risk of a nuclear war being launched by accident is classified as a "low probability" event, the more you repeat these events, the higher the possibility that it will occur.

The fact that both Pakistan and India are on the detection/launch system, it is really out of their hands - if something sets off their detection system, whether it is legitimate incoming missiles or a meteor or the launch of a satelite, the nation has no options, the weapons are programmed to launch. To me, collective complacency and apathy towards these very serious weapons only adds to the problem. The threat of a nuclear war between India and Pakistan remains real and efforts need to be made to attenuate that threat.

[Perfectionist]

Originally Posted by Freaked out

Well, just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. For example, I have never been in a car accident, does that preclude me somehow from being in one at some point in the future?

You're quite right Ally, you haven't shot laser beams out of your eyes just yet, doesn't mean you won't in the future .....

By the way, congratulations on coming back ..... I've usually scared you away from a thread by my second post ..... you are becoming resilient ..... must be cos Christmas is coming !!

(Wait, you haven't posted a pic of your legs yet, does that mean that might happen too ?? )

While it is true that the risk of a nuclear war being launched by accident is classified as a "low probability" event, the more you repeat these events, the higher the possibility that it will occur.

Agreed, the more you try to force laser beams to shoot out of your eyes ..... the greater the likelihood it will eventually happen .....

The fact that both Pakistan and India are on the detection/launch system, it is really out of their hands - if something sets off their detection system, whether it is legitimate incoming missiles or a meteor or the launch of a satelite, the nation has no options, the weapons are programmed to launch.

I put this silly notion of yours to rest above ..... you really are one stubborn Canadian !!

To me, collective complacency and apathy towards these very serious weapons only adds to the problem.

All things should be given their due attention ..... however they have to be prioritised ..... Natural Disaster, Uncontrollable Disease, Economic Collapse etc, are far more likely ..... if ya gonna waste time worrying about "the bomb" then you may as well worry about the Loch Ness monster coming out of hiding and eating every Human on Earth ..... well someone's gotta focus on this threat, it may as well be you !!

The threat of a nuclear war between India and Pakistan remains real and efforts need to be made to attenuate that threat.

Trust me, the Indian's and Pakistani's are far more worried about war between their countries than anybody else ..... and more effort than you can imagine is being made to make sure it never happens !!