Overpopulation

[AnimeFreak]

Uhh because of overpopulation that will probably will be a big problem later in the future .. Have anybody ever read the Shadow Children Series? (Among the Barons , Among the Betrayed , Among the Hidden and the other one i forgot the title)
It's based on the future that overpopulation caused like food shortages so the government put a law that u could only have 2 kids per family ....
Could something like that happen in the near future?

[lotrfan55345]

Yep, its already happening in places like China and India. IMHO, I think it should happen everywhere in the world. If a sudden climate shift happens, it will cause billions to suffer with these 6 billion in the world.

[VegasRonin]

Overpopulation is a myth. You can take every living person in the world and put them in the U.S.. Everyone would have 14 sq. ft. of individual space. A teepee for everyone. LOL! I know that's unrealistic cause we need space for agriculture and other things but my point is, there is space for plenty more people on the planet. The rules of Homesteading here in the U.S. suck! There is so much land just taking up space that the Govt. owns, its ridiculous. You should just be able to sign some sort of agreement that you're going to build a home, and ownership of a certain amount of land space should be yours. The Govt. doesn't want that though. They prefer to herd us into cities. Why? Easier to control, and easier to spoon feed ideology. Anyways, back on topic, there's plenty of space in the world. Mankind populates something like 15-20% of the earth, and that's a high end estimate.

[bbbv3.5]

Anime...oveerpopulation would probably occur if things such as abortion or the pill were not invented.

Also cities like New York City (as you and I should know) are no where near to being overpopulated. America has very distributed cities throughout the coutnry. But in places like China they only stay on the coasts..especially their east coast. So thats why there is a risk of over population there. But if they were smart they would move.

Anime this is nothing you shoudl worry about!

[stewey]

Overpopulation is nothing to be worried about, here is why...

1. As countries become more developed, the birth rate drops. The US has had a birth rate of under 1% for several decades now, and it still is dropping. Same with other developed countries. As countries develop people get more involved with careers and such, so they produce less kids.
2. There is more than enough food in the world. It is the problem of getting the food to the right people. The reason for starvation? Corrupt governments and leaders.
3. IF there was "too many people", the prices for products would go up ever so slighty as the population did, which would mean cost of living raises. This means people would be forced to have less kids. Less kids = less population.

These were all given to me by my sociology professor last fall, hes a ph.d. and all that good stuff.

i think those most in fear of overpopulation are those who are afraid of losing control and being overthrown.

[dutchie]

Originally Posted by VegasRonin

Overpopulation is a myth. You can take every living person in the world and put them in the U.S.. Everyone would have 14 sq. ft. of individual space. A teepee for everyone. LOL! I know that's unrealistic cause we need space for agriculture and other things but my point is, there is space for plenty more people on the planet. The rules of Homesteading here in the U.S. suck! There is so much land just taking up space that the Govt. owns, its ridiculous. You should just be able to sign some sort of agreement that you're going to build a home, and ownership of a certain amount of land space should be yours. The Govt. doesn't want that though. They prefer to herd us into cities. Why? Easier to control, and easier to spoon feed ideology. Anyways, back on topic, there's plenty of space in the world. Mankind populates something like 15-20% of the earth, and that's a high end estimate.

Our wishes regarding the future of the economy prohibit a larger world population.

[sarcasm]But I guess the elite that's governing this world will find a solution.. [/sarcasm]

[AnimeFreak]

lotrfan55345

Yep, its already happening in places like China and India. IMHO, I think it should happen everywhere in the world. If a sudden climate shift happens, it will cause billions to suffer with these 6 billion in the world.

What do you mean by which it is happening in China and India?!?!?

[DarkAce]

In China you're only allowed one child per couple. Because of this, it's becoming common practice for expecting mothers to abort their child if they find out it's a female. Recent studies show that men already outnumber the women by (I forget the figure) and it's suppose to steadily increase into the, I believe, 20 million figure in the near decade or sooner ( can't remember exact numbers).

You don't keep up much with world events Animefreak?

[bbbv3.5]

You don't keep up much with world events Animefreak?

One...two....three....500 people have now figured this out Darkace.

[lotrfan55345]

Taken from a member of the PO forums... exellent post on overpopulation:

My background is that of National Park Ranger, ecologist, environmentalist, and desert naturalist. I have studied, photographed, and written about complex ecosystems for many years. I have seen a lot of debate about the post-peak world and how there will or will not be a die-off of the population. As we all know, we are about to enter an era in which each year, less net energy will be available to humankind, regardless of our efforts or choices. Energy is not the only factor, however; the operative principle in determining the carrying capacity of an ecosystem is known as Liebig's Law, which states that whatever necessity is least abundant, relative to per-capita requirements, sets the environment's limit for the population of any given species.

The Second Law of Thermo Dynamics states that whenever energy is converted form one form to another, there is an energy loss in the form of heat. This is the law of entropy as well, which is a measure of the amount of energy no longer practically capable of conversion to work. Entropy within an isolated system inevitably increases over time. Since it takes work to create and maintain order within a system, the entropy law tells us that, in the battle between order and chaos, it is chaos that ultimately wins. Look at a child's bedroom and the chaotic disarray that happens overnight. It takes more energy to put that room back in order than it did to mess it up. The only truly isolated system we know of is the universe. But there are two other system types: open and closed. The earth is an example of a closed system. It exchanges energy with the universe, but not matter, save the occasional meteorite. Since it is a closed system it is always being degraded by entropy.

Living organisms, on the other hand, are an example of an open system, where both matter and energy are exchanged. It is because of this exchange that living systems can afford to create and sustain order. Take that usable source of energy away and they soon die. This is true of human societies and technologies as well. Human societies can increase their level of order by increasing their energy flow-through; but by doing so they increase the entropy (random movement towards disorder) within the open system. The energy available in an ecosystem is one of the most important factors in determining its "carrying capacity," which is the maximum population that can be supported on an on-going basis. This brings us back to Leibig's Law. The limiting factor for any population may change over time. Nature prefers stable arrangements that entail self-limitation, recycling, and cooperation. Energy subsidies as the results of disturbed environments (mining, oil, coal, LNG, extraction) or colonization (invading Iraq) provide giddy moments of extravagance for the species, but crashes and die-offs usually follow. Balance eventually returns.

Man has increased his energy flow-through in many ways: colonization, tool use, specialization, globalization(trade), and the use of nature's stock of non-renewable resources: coal, oil, natural gas, and uranium. This last strategy has been the most successful in increasing the carrying capacity of the environment. The human population did not reach 1 billion until 1820; so in 184 years, it has increased six-fold. If we were to add up the total energy consumption that keeps us in the life-style we are accustomed to, compared to the energy a human body can produce, we find that every American has the equivalent of 50 "energy slaves"working for us 24 hours a day. Far-out, you say! It has its costs: ecological destruction, pollution, climate change, and an every increasing dependency on sun-light carbon that went underground millions of years ago, which is not a part of the earth?s closed carbon cycle system.

If the availability of these "fossil fuels" were to decline significantly without our having found effective replacements, then the global human carrying capacity would plummet perhaps even below its pre-industrial levels. Nature has feedback loops that keep its populations in check. We have found ways to circumvent most of them: medicines to combat disease, increased production of food, and the exploitation of non-renewable energy sources. In the closed system of earth, energy is limited to renewables, but since we have opened the treasure chests of earth-bound goodies, we have been able to keep entropy in check.

Now back to Liebig's Law again. When there is lots of food-energy available, a population blooms. Obviously, it can't go on forever, eventually there will be more people than there is food to support them. Over the long-term, nature will strike a balance between the number of people and the available food. However, the momentum of population increase may lead the population to what is referred to as "overshoot, " and exceed the carrying capacity of their environment. Here's where peak-oil comes in. Since the proliferating, ever-energy-hungry population may consume the energy faster than it can be produced, the population may actually reduce their carrying capacity even as their numbers and energy consumption is increasing. If this occurs, the population will not simply gradually diminish until balance is achieved: instead, it will rapidly crash--that is, die-off.

At this point, depending on how seriously the population has altered their carrying capacity, they will either adapt or die out altogether. If they reduced the consumption of the energy so that it could meet demand (keep entropy at bay) then they would stabilize at a lower level. However, if the population were to consume the energy to the point of total elimination, the carrying capacity would be reduced to zero, and the people would die out altogether. This is Leibig's Law and no species is immune. The party is over, the beer is gone, and the harsh light of morning is in our eyes.

[Doomer]

Originally Posted by VegasRonin

Overpopulation is a myth. You can take every living person in the world and put them in the U.S.. Everyone would have 14 sq. ft. of individual space. A teepee for everyone. LOL! I know that's unrealistic cause we need space for agriculture and other things but my point is, there is space for plenty more people on the planet. The rules of Homesteading here in the U.S. suck! There is so much land just taking up space that the Govt. owns, its ridiculous. You should just be able to sign some sort of agreement that you're going to build a home, and ownership of a certain amount of land space should be yours. The Govt. doesn't want that though. They prefer to herd us into cities. Why? Easier to control, and easier to spoon feed ideology. Anyways, back on topic, there's plenty of space in the world. Mankind populates something like 15-20% of the earth, and that's a high end estimate.

Do you really believe this ?????????

[lotrfan55345]

I think this would be more than 15%.... and humans populate more than the lighted portion of the map because there are always the 3rd worlders w/o eleKtricity.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html

Heres a better representation:

[VegasRonin]

I'm not going to sit here and do the math but if you go to http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbagg you'll see how much space is alloted to each individual per country. Most countries have well over 100km per person, of space. As of 07/01/04 there are approximately 6,372,797,742 people in the world, and they are, for the most part, living in densely populated areas; whereas they don't have to but for a myriad of reasons, they choose to.

[lotrfan55345]

Originally Posted by VegasRonin

they choose to.

In a lot of places this happens, but I'm just going to use China as an example...

The western coastal plain is where most people live, and is heavily populated, right? If they moved inwards, that would be towards the Gobi Desert.. Where there are no jobs and no possiblity of "living off the land"... All cold rock and sand.

Northern Canada/Russia: Too cold
Sahara Desert: Not fertile/desert
Inner Australia: Not fertile/desert
Amazon: "It's a jungle out there..."
Greenland: All ice
Antarctica: All ice

There, that about covers all the major areas with very low population density.

And again, there is Lieberg's Law... We're using stored up sunlight from millions of years ago, and that source is going to peak within the next 5 years. (2005 according to Princeton) All of this with an increasing population.

As countries become more developed, the birth rate drops. The US has had a birth rate of under 1% for several decades now, and it still is dropping.

(Most)Africa, SE Asia, India, China, (most) South America is still FAR from being developed. It will take over 100 years for most of these countries to be fully "developed" and have a sinking birthrate. In ~60 years we'll be scraping the last bits of fossil fuels out of the barrel. Estimates show that fusion will take 50-75 years to develop... we don't have that much time. Other alternatives are covered extensively on the peak oil thread(s).

Ofcourse I think the population will peak a decade or so after peak oil but that is still well above the carriying capacity of a no-hydrocarbon Earth.

[niteflyer]

Its all gonna be taken care of...there are just too many stupid nonproductive people on earth. Oil depletion is a great reason to fight...with nukes...Yipee!!! America will lead the charge...and we hope three fourths to five sixths die worldwide...and America is gonna be pretty close to utterly wiped out. Americans are mostly just too entrenched into stupid tech and habits to retrain.....unfortunately its the only way....and its all being put into place.
You gotta understand, the tech developed in the 40's and 50's makes oil totally superflous, and antigrav transport possible, but there is a huge drawback here. Ever wonder why there are always all these rumors of surpressed technologies around?? Well kiddies, its true, there are, and its been known how to harness ZPE for quite awhile (zero point energy). Why arent we doing it?? Think about it....infinite (or close to it...earth can only dissapate so much heat) energy??? Well, the simple truth is its basic, if you learn it all in college (you wont learn the RIGHT physics there) you wont learn it...but if you look at nature...ITS RIGHT THERE...right in your face...note that most of these "supressed" inventions have been produced by persons of modest, if any, "higher" education.
The simple problem is, that the same principle that generates useful energy speeded up produces a bomb; one that could make a 20 megaton Hbomb look like a kids firecracker, you could theoretically vaporize the entire planet. You really want this tech out here in the world? Open the box of knowledge and you will never surpress the knowledge again, and most of it is amazingly simple tech.
This is what the real leaders are up against...how to use our science to promote the human race and better it, against all the stupid idiots that are currently the populace. Its time for major weeding...If you dont know what Im talking about, you are very much a potential weed. If you arent being warned, you are a potential weed. Its time to prepare...NOW!!
If you dont, you will forfeit your life. If you as a citizen prepare, and survive, you surely have something going for you and will most likely be integrated, and deservedly so, into the NWO. Theres nothing you can do to stop us...your expose's are laughable, and you just dont get whats really going on. All this alien and satanist bullshit, hahahahaha... such ignorance is amazing. Ive made some friends here, and you need to know, need to prepare to save your life from the coming events. This is all I can do to help you....
Understand that were not all bad, all evil. We are responsible for humanity now and have to take drastic measures to make it better, prune all the cruddy bloodlines, make a better life for all our descendants.
Act like cattle, and you will be consumed....get prepared, and soon!!! Everything you know is about to break, and you cant count on much but yourselves; either apply what Im telling you or you will most likely perish. Its gotta be done for the sake of our race....remember that, after all, we are just people too, but have inherited a terrific and terrible responsibility...also know I am American and scared, but this Republic did set a record for longevity, I will miss the old ways...
I hope to see many of you again, but I am really busy right now, and the stakes are too high to spend much time on idle pursuits....

[VegasRonin]

There ya go again niteflyer, talking like you're in the know. You were suppose to have proven yourself a while ago, and yet you have not. You have yet to post something that isn't already on the net and found on most NWO type of websites. Whatever happened to your UFO fly-over? or The ZPE schematics you were supposed to email Dutchie?

[Zeit-Wärtner]

Hmmm a lot of people in this thread seem unperterbed that the there are 6+ Billion people in the world and that this number is steadily increasing. But I care about overpopulation. And when I say overpopulation, I don't mean "The human race has increased to a number that can no longer sustain itself." I'm concerned with all of that stuff that happens in between. This world is 2/3 water which means unless we start building Atolls like the ones in Waterworld, we are bound to only 1/3 of the world. Also, only a percentage of that land is suitable for human life, nobody lives on the poles and IMO less people can be sustained in the desert. Plus, what about wildlife. I happen to have a very soft place reserved for African elephants. Their habitat and the habitat of thousands of animals is endangered. As we increase our numbers, they must decrease theirs. And nowadays, people aren't trying to live in teepees. We have huge chunks of land set a side just to dump our garbage. And what if companies that pollute the land and water get away with it more and more. People would have no choice but to buy all of their drinking water (so the price would go up) since the water that comes out of your sink isn't good for you anymore.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... Humans share this land with other creatures. They need space to live as well. So I am concerned about a healthy balance between flora and fauna. Not simply whether or not humans can genetically engineer food products at a pace that will meet population needs. *shrug*