New Theory re mental disorders- parents genes in "competition"

[Nu Kua]

Very interesting article publish in the New York Times.


Benedict Carey reports for the NY Times:

Two scientists, drawing on their own powers of observation and a creative reading of recent genetic findings, have published a sweeping theory of brain development that would change the way mental disorders like autism and schizophrenia are understood...

...Their idea is, in broad outline, straightforward. Dr. Crespi and Dr. Badcock propose that an evolutionary tug of war between genes from the father’s sperm and the mother’s egg can, in effect, tip brain development in one of two ways. A strong bias toward the father pushes a developing brain along the autistic spectrum, toward a fascination with objects, patterns, mechanical systems, at the expense of social development. A bias toward the mother moves the growing brain along what the researchers call the psychotic spectrum, toward hypersensitivity to mood, their own and others’. This, according to the theory, increases a child’s risk of developing schizophrenia later on, as well as mood problems like bipolar disorder and depression.

In short: autism and schizophrenia represent opposite ends of a spectrum that includes most, if not all, psychiatric and developmental brain disorders. The theory has no use for psychiatry’s many separate categories for disorders, and it would give genetic findings an entirely new dimension...

[Fyhre]

Interesting article!

Emotional problems like depression, anxiety and bipolar disorder, seen through this lens, appear on Mom’s side of the teeter-totter, with schizophrenia, while Asperger’s syndrome and other social deficits are on Dad’s.

Why doesn't this surprise me?

It was Dr. Badcock who noticed that some problems associated with autism, like a failure to meet another’s gaze...

Of course it was he who noticed this. With a name like that, I'd have a hard time looking him in the eyes, too. :)

[olddragon]

Originally Posted by Fyhre

Interesting article!

Why doesn't this surprise me?

Of course it was he who noticed this. With a name like that, I'd have a hard time looking him in the eyes, too. :)

LMAO, I think you can get shots for that,
unless it was something he was born with.
Then maybe surgery could fix it.

[Fyhre]

Originally Posted by olddragon

LMAO, I think you can get shots for that,
unless it was something he was born with.
Then maybe surgery could fix it.

Dr. Badcock would surely screw somebody's genes up.

[Nu Kua]

This is a fascinating theory and all you two can do is laugh at this guys (admittedly hilarious) last name?


Think about it- this is to suggest that autism and schizophrenia are opposite ends of the same spectrum, right? Like men and women... that autism reflects the linear and focused nature of the typical man's mind, and schizophrenia represents the circular and all-inclusive nature of a woman's mind- but to the extreme, way out of balance.
What would cause the genes to "war" with each other so that one pattern takes over the other exclusively?
And if all things are related, and both of these disorders are on the rise, what could that mean, metaphysically or mass evolution of humanity-wise?








If Dr. Crespi was a woman, and Dr. Badcock a man, and if they married and if she chose to keep her last name and add his on,
her last name would be "Crispy Bad Cock" phonetically speaking, and so would that of their children.
Now see what you've done?

[Fyhre]

Originally Posted by Nu Kua

Think about it- this is to suggest that autism and schizophrenia are opposite ends of the same spectrum, right? Like men and women... that autism reflects the linear and focused nature of the typical man's mind, and schizophrenia represents the circular and all-inclusive nature of a woman's mind...

Precisely. That's why I said I wasn't surprised!

If Dr. Crespi was a woman, and Dr. Badcock a man, and if they married and if she chose to keep her last name and add his on,
her last name would be "Crispy Bad Cock" phonetically speaking, and so would that of their children.
Now see what you've done?

LOL! We're just so wrong...

[BlindWatcher]

I can be a real freakin moron sometimes. Sorry if what was here offended anyone.

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by Fyhre

Interesting article!

You said Ass burger...


EDIT- OUCH WHAT AN INSENSITIVE PRICK I AM! Apologies.

:whips self violently:

[Fyhre]

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

You said Ass burger...


EDIT- OUCH WHAT AN INSENSITIVE PRICK I AM! Apologies.

:whips self violently:

God damn it....you're so insensitive to my FEELINGS!

[olddragon]

This thread has become, just another in the long line of lunacy, found at AO, in spite of it's scientific beginnings.
It truly shows that anything can, and will become humor, if it is left lying around here.
You all should apologize to Nu Kua, for making light of her Mental disorder thread.
I am sure it is close to her heart.

NK, did I tell you how much I love taking things apart........it's like a psychotic obsession.....ha ha aha a

[Nu Kua]

Originally Posted by Dragon

NK, did I tell you how much I love taking things apart........it's like a psychotic obsession.....ha ha aha a

LOL no! And nobody need apologize, stop being silly.
I just find it fascinating is all. Hard to think nobody else does, but maybe that's kind of MY psychotic obsession!

(That whole male/female, positive/negative, push/pull thing in general)

[Fyhre]

Originally Posted by olddragon

You all should apologize to Nu Kua...

What are you talking about..."you should all"? You were second in line to poke fun, buster.

And Nu Kua, in all honesty, I find anything that has to do with mental disorders extremely interesting. It's why I loved working out of Harborview. Some of the records I've read there...you'd swear were right out of some psycho movie. Chilling almost.

[olddragon]

Originally Posted by Fyhre

What are you talking about..."you should all"? You were second in line to poke fun, buster.

And Nu Kua, in all honesty, I find anything that has to do with mental disorders extremely interesting. It's why I loved working out of Harborview. Some of the records I've read there...you'd swear were right out of some psycho movie. Chilling almost.

I can see you on the couch with Dr. Badcock now..........
Tell me about your dreams, Kitten......

[Mezurashi]

hmm ... what to say about genetic codes engaging in Competition as well as Cooperation ... it doesn't surprise me in the sense that it fits in with Nature.

as I was reading the article I kept thinking about how animals cooperate in the wild (like two different species of herbivore sharing the same grounds) even while they're competing (they're sharing the same patch of ground so there's bound to be bumping). there is usually something mutually beneficial going on.

but the competition is there - and should a predator burst onto the scene it's every individual for itself in the mad dash to get away.

so our genes themselves fight it out as well as cooperate - that might just explain cancer ...

*still giggling over the crispy bad cock ass burger thing*

[Fyhre]

Mez...just as bad as the rest of us...

[olddragon]

So Mez, are you saying that there is a struggle between
Dr. Badcock and Goodcock ?

[Nu Kua]

Originally Posted by Mezurashi

hmm ... what to say about genetic codes engaging in Competition as well as Cooperation ... it doesn't surprise me in the sense that it fits in with Nature.

as I was reading the article I kept thinking about how animals cooperate in the wild (like two different species of herbivore sharing the same grounds) even while they're competing (they're sharing the same patch of ground so there's bound to be bumping). there is usually something mutually beneficial going on.

but the competition is there - and should a predator burst onto the scene it's every individual for itself in the mad dash to get away.

so our genes themselves fight it out as well as cooperate - that might just explain cancer ...

It amazes me on so many levels I am not sure where to begin.
First of all, I see the whole chaos theory come into play, not only in recognizing order is present even in that which seems disordered, but that what is universally true at the largest of levels is also true at the tiniest.
I am a follower of the theory of pan-spermia, in that much of the life on earth was seeded, (or activated?) by the impact of a comet or asteroid that had traveled so far and wide through the Universe that it picked up bits and pieces of various matter that, upon the impact of a planet that had water so that diverse elements could merge...
Watery planet is key because water makes what cannot blend to more easily become cohesive, water is like a medium in which diverse elements can blend.
I am way oversimplifying here. but to continue...
So with the smallest bit of reasoning, once can clearly see the analogy to the inception of life within a body-
the meteor is the sperm rushing furiously on a predestined path through the universe of the womb, the watery earth is the egg that lies in wait. Life at the purest, most base of levels began in this way, and life will continue to be produced like so, forever, or else it cannot happen. Even in the plant world, life is created by some form of maleness impregnating, so to speak, a female aspect of the plant. Even assexual earthworms must reproduce by sticking the male part of themselves into the female part of themselves. No matter what you do, nothing is accomplished without this unity in balance, nothing you eat, not one project you start, nothing, nada, zip.

For the proper life of the mind, one that has just enough linear thinking to be able to make it out the door each day, combined with enough creative thinking to have a reason to do so, there must also be a proper blending of male and female aspects of the mind- not warring and the feeling that one has to fight for resources or safety.
As these men are suggesting, perhaps autism is a "hyper male brain" and schizophrenia is a "hyper female brain", with no corrective balance of the opposite "gender"- what caused the imbalance to begin with?


So Mez you said

"I kept thinking about how animals cooperate in the wild (like two different species of herbivore sharing the same grounds) even while they're competing (they're sharing the same patch of ground so there's bound to be bumping). there is usually something mutually beneficial going on.

but the competition is there - and should a predator burst onto the scene it's every individual for itself in the mad dash to get away."

So to apply this to the maleness and femaleness of a gene ceasing to work together and begin competing instead, I wonder what "frightened" them to that they stopped working together and began to think "every gene for him or her self!" ? What is the predator that is challenging the proper cohesion? Both conditions have been noted to be increasing in occurrence, in fact I was just reading that autism is rising at 'an an alarming rate" so whatever it is that makes the predator, there would seem to be more of it.

If we jumped into our mini starships and rode high above the earth to look at it, and we had the type of view that allowed us to see the energetic, collective human mind as it is manifesting on Earth, would be see more of a fragmenting of male and female aspects of that mind?
So from far above, what would it look like, and could we see the predator?
We see where we are with the split, when the two are not working together, to balance each other out- one mind cannot function properly without the two opposite minds working together...
and this is the same with men and women in general, the same with all life, with all creative ventures, with everything.

sorry if so fuzzy, still waiting on coffee. Must get a new espresso machine asap, this one is on its last leg.

[lycanox]

There is a a possibility that a mutation in the X or Y chromosome is the cause of this.
Just like a coding error in the Y chromosome sometimes causes the male to turn into a female during development because it cant win from the X chromosome.

That would explain why these deceases are often passed to children.
It however does not explain why sometimes girls get autism, even do they are devout of the male genetic code.


As for the animal comparison. Some species attack each other because they compete for food sources. I don't think there is any reason to believe that a external trigger is needed.

[Nu Kua]

Originally Posted by Lycanox

That would explain why these deceases are often passed to children.
It however does not explain why sometimes girls get autism, even do they are devout of the male genetic code.

Obviously I am a layperson here just tossing theories out, but anyway,
A man and a woman still have both types of thinking, still have the "left brain" and the "right brain" right? Now often enough to be stereotypical, the left brain type of thinking is attributed to analytical thought, dealing with "hard" facts such as abstractions, structure, discipline, rules, mathematics, categorizing, logic, ect, is usually more obvious in men, while the right brained type of thinking, responsible for intuition, visualizing, creativity, spatial awareness, rhythm, spontaneity, ect, is usually more obvious in women.
But in truth, most of us have access to both sides of the brain, and most of us who are kind of "low" energy in one type of thinking can learn how to increase the other type of thinking. But in those with autism or schizophrenia, the balance is upset- they still have a left brain and a right brain, but access to one seems to be virtually shut off.

So females could get autism when the left brain is in control... right? And they get an "access Denied" error when trying to approach the right brain.

As for the animal comparison. Some species attack each other because they compete for food sources. I don't think there is any reason to believe that a external trigger is needed.

So to make an analogy on a molecular level, if the two forces, male or female, felt they had to compete for something, what would they be competing for, and what set off that state of being?

[lycanox]

Originally Posted by Nu Kua

Obviously I am a layperson here just tossing theories out, but anyway,
A man and a woman still have both types of thinking, still have the "left brain" and the "right brain" right? Now often enough to be stereotypical, the left brain type of thinking is attributed to analytical thought, dealing with "hard" facts such as abstractions, structure, discipline, rules, mathematics, categorizing, logic, ect, is usually more obvious in men, while the right brained type of thinking, responsible for intuition, visualizing, creativity, spatial awareness, rhythm, spontaneity, ect, is usually more obvious in women.
But in truth, most of us have access to both sides of the brain, and most of us who are kind of "low" energy in one type of thinking can learn how to increase the other type of thinking. But in those with autism or schizophrenia, the balance is upset- they still have a left brain and a right brain, but access to one seems to be virtually shut off.


So females could get autism when the left brain is in control... right? And they get an "access Denied" error when trying to approach the right brain.

So to make an analogy on a molecular level, if the two forces, male or female, felt they had to compete for something, what would they be competing for, and what set off that state of being?

I think that the competition is not fighting against each other in something of boxing game where the one tries to destroy the other. But more a running competition in which both runners are equally fast or depending on the gender, the runner representing that gender is just a bit faster.

If both runners finish at the same time or just shortly after each other, there is balance and the person is healthy.
If however one of the runners is sick or the other is overpowered. the balance is lost.

[Mezurashi]

*crawls in from having just separated Badcock from Goodcock in their eternal struggle for dominance ... can still hear the echoes of them trying to get out of their respective cages to continue the fight*

DISCLAIMER: none of what I'm about to spew is meant to be True or Real - this is all just stuff I'm yanking out of the pits of my groggy cerebellum ...

the whole connection between genetic codes and psycho-physical manifestations in our personalities is the breakthrough - but the competition aspect that was proposed as the trigger is what got me started on the whole C&C thing ...

Competition is a term I use in the broadest sense of the word - and lycanox hit it on the head with;

Originally Posted by lycanox

I think that the competition is not fighting against each other in something of boxing game where the one tries to destroy the other. But more a running competition in which both runners are equally fast or depending on the gender, the runner representing that gender is just a bit faster.

If both runners finish at the same time or just shortly after each other, there is balance and the person is healthy.
If however one of the runners is sick or the other is overpowered. the balance is lost.

which is as accurate as any metaphor I could come up with for the C&C dynamic.

this is not to imply, though, that the competing elements are Rivals outside of their direct point of intersect. and I don't believe that Predation counts as Competition in this sense ... this Is the difference between a track meet and a war.

and the concept of Victory is skewed as well ... often in biological negative feedback loops the point is to re-establish homeostasis in the organism - which is often achieved by one aspect over-riding another for a time until the need is gone and things cycle back to norm as the dormant aspects start cranking up to their previous level of activity and so on ... in a situation like this trying to 'win' isn't the point.

so, aspects are running away whilst others are dominating - why?

parsing it down through Biological Imperative the best answer to Why things are the way they are that I could come up with is, 'Because that's how it turned out.'

which isn't to say that we are so much powerless as we are in a position of being able to affect our individual destinies on a limited scale. let's face it, some genetic obstacles are impossible to overcome, for now. but at least we're pushing the envelope in that insistent way we have when it comes to living forever (which is, honestly, the Ultimate Goal of human aspiration).

the Competition comes because without it the Cooperative aspects wouldn't have means of error control. consider that all life on Earth today owes it's existence to a series of ancient catastrophe's (Snowball Earth, the Permian Extinction, the K-T Boundary Impact) which shook up the status quo in that all encompassing way which forced Life to adapt to an entirely new set of environmental factors - and lots of loss and a long time later something new crawled out of the slime and set forth to do it's best to live long enough to have offspring. if it weren't for the occasional catastrophe, we wouldn't be here.

I think that maybe it's the same on all levels. we all go through varying degrees of 'physical catastrophe' of all manner, ranging from viruses and bacterial infections through to having large objects pass through parts of us and so on. maybe the issue isn't 'male-female' as much as 'competitors.'

and maybe it happens because if it didn't then nothing would ever change and that's a sure way to go extinct ...

or maybe it's just immature affection, like how kids express their like of one another by doing something rude (mud in the hair, pushing them over, etc.)

damn, now I've gone and sprained my brain ...