Natural Mind Expansion? Out of body?

[Beatnik Bob]

It was a draw between religion and paranormal. If Foelhe decides to move it to paranormal, I guess I cant complain.

Well, this was a past expirience, fairly recent actually. I was having a shitty day, and I thought about all the other people in the world having "bad days." I thought to myself, "God, look at your "children." Look at what they do. They kill, they hurt, they rape. (at this point i had arrived home and was laying in bed dwelling on this).

(A short insight into myself. I have taken many IQ tests, in which I made some of the highest recorded scorings [trying not to sound like Jake] in the visual spacial area)
(So, I think through pictures allot, and whatever I see I ussually remember).
I was laying in bed, and in my head I saw a woman being raped (and the after affects of tears, trauma and pain, all simultaneously), a man dying and bleeding from the mouth, a woman with cancer, dying. I asked God, "Honestly, why are you doing this to humanity? You made us to be your presence on this planet (this is my belief as a Jew), and yet you cause chaos amongst us."
At this point I screamed in pain, through a teary face for the raped woman and the bleeding man. I cried for the families of those that have lost a loved one.
I cried.
And cried...
I repeatedly asked God why the hell he was doing this.
Why?
Why??
WHY?!?
Then, I started to see the images and moments of these people in my head slowly get smaller and smaller. I felt myself move away from them at great distances(light years away). They became a small sphere of white light images in the distance. I felt completely immersed into them, and yet...completely detached...
I rocketed away from them at incredible speeds, and there was a black void all around (it wasn't space, if it were there'd be stars...).
I could only dimly sense the existence of my skull and head, and I felt as if my mind had no limits, it was as if it were going on forever. I just couldn't sense a barrier.
It felt huge. My mind that is. No...not even my brain...it was something else. It was me.
(This I have heard is mind expansion, and is felt when in a state under marijuana. I swear I wasn't high, I give my word).
I dimly felt my body as well. I felt unconnected, and yet...connected.
I was aware of my body shaking, tremors sliding through my arms and legs, but I didn't really pay attention.
My arms felt like far away sticks. Incredibly insignificant.
And I felt that point of light so far away, and so near.
(It is hard to describe the light that composed the images, it was kind of black and white, but it had some element of color, and the light was so strange...)

And this small dot of light was very different as well, it was like the light of the images. It was white...and yet it seemed to have an element of darkness...very hard to describe in words.

I had previously put on Led Zeppelin music, and it was a nearly inaudible hum in the background.
At another point the speck of light dissapeared from view, and I saw pain. I saw it's texture that is. I cant describe it. It was a large texture momentarily stretching across my vision in blacks, whites and greys. It was rough...and soft. And it was constantly moving and changing, though it retained something similar.

Then I started to become more aware of my body. So imperseptably aware of it that I never noticed when I sat up, and the music became louder again. I felt the largeness and huge immensity of my head decrease. (Though another note on the "mind expansion," I new it was large, but it didn't seem large, it seemed familiar)

At the point that I felt my body again, I was extremely exhausted. And after a few minutes I fell into a light sleep.

(note: I recognized that I was on the sixth track of my led zeppelin CD when I "rejoined my body."
So, I haven't calculated it exactly, but, I'm guessing this thing lasted about 20minutes? I'll calculate it exactly later...

What do you guys think of this?
I swear I'm telling the truth. I promise I had not had any pot, or any other drug, or liquor. The only thing I had consumed that day was oxygen, an energy bar in the morning, cereal in the morning as well. A bag of Fritos, and two bottles of water, (and maybe some second hand smoke, but I promise it smelled like tobacco and not burnt chicken [smell of a lit joint]).


But yeah...what does everyone think?

Feel free to ask me any questions....
(To a certain extent of course).

[uki]

natural mind expansion can be instigated via the amanita muscaria, the psilocybes, marijuanita, peyote, and numerous other natural mind altering and expanding plants and fungi of planet earth. choose wisely because some doors that you'll open will never close... sometimes they are blown completely off the hinges.

[jeffweeder]

I thought to myself, "God, look at your "children." Look at what they do. They kill, they hurt, they rape.

Thats like one really bad virus that humanity has caught, somewhere along the line.
Can't imagine that it was always this way.

I asked God, "Honestly, why are you doing this to humanity? You made us to be your presence on this planet (this is my belief as a Jew), and yet you cause chaos amongst us."

Possibly one of the symptoms of this virus, is a tendency to put the blame where it does not belong. You just correctly pointed out" look at what MAN does", now its God causing all the chaos....

I repeatedly asked God why the hell he was doing this.
Why?
Why??
WHY?!?

No body likes medicine, so we reject the antidote.
Being a Jew, you would be familiar with the term;
The stone the builders rejected, turned out to be the cornerstone..


What your God has done, because of his tremendous love he has for your people (and us) is to allow himself to be hated and murdered by becoming a man. He therefore brings justice to those raped and murdered, by allowing them to live again.
What more can he do?,- people continually reject the right medicine by their own volition.


I remember the first time marajuana effected me, i had a similar experience. I was in and out of reality, the stairs were moving, no, swimming-( I had to walk down 5 flights of stairs)-there was no way i was getting into that elevator, as i was very paranoid, plus the fact that i could not stop laughing. It wasn't much better in the stairway, as it was really echoey in there. Once i got to my floor, i slowly opened the stairway door, and made a quick dash to my room, and did something i shouldnt have done---lie down.
First my feet then legs started rising out of my body( I was still physically flat on the bed, of course) and remember grabbing the bed to stop myself from floating away it seemed- it worked. Then my head and chest area started rising, so I repeated the process, and finally had to stand up, as i was a little concerned. Sort of regret not letting myself just go, but wasn't sure if it would be easy to get back in, so i chickened out.

So maybe if you indulge, it could be some sort of relapse, or seeing as you were addressing God, he might be trying to tell you something, or worse its some kind of growth on the brain, that you might not be aware of. (tongue in cheek)

[Beatnik Bob]

Originally Posted by Cherisa

People on here are going to say you were dreaming.btw.

If i was dreaming, then every time a human blinks, he momentarily falls asleep...


And I promise to God I wasn't high.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I remember the first time marajuana effected me, i had a similar experience.

I wasn't high damnit!
Why would I deny it? If I had actually taken marijuana (or any of those other substances Uki listed) I would admit it! What would I get out of lying.

I had nothing more dangerouse that a freakin power bar. With 5 grams of proteins.

Originally Posted by Jeff

What your God has done, because of his tremendous love he has for your people (and us) is to allow himself to be hated and murdered by becoming a man. He therefore brings justice to those raped and murdered, by allowing them to live again.

MY God? So...we're dealing with more than one god here?

And so God's reasoning is, "I'll create these humans to live in pain all their life, a few will get raped, plenty murdered, but I'll give them an after life"?

That's sick Jeffy...

[DontBeAfraid]

If i was dreaming, then every time a human blinks, he momentarily falls asleep...

My blinks dont last 20 minutes. My naps do though.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Originally Posted by jeffweeder

Possibly one of the symptoms of this virus, is a tendency to put the blame where it does not belong. You just correctly pointed out" look at what MAN does", now its God causing all the chaos....

Don't you guys believe God is omnipotent? Even if he doesn't necessarily cause the suffering, he allows it to happen. Evil in the second degree, and all that. Well, not that I think it's evil.

Originally Posted by Cherisa

No, I know you wern't dreming or high.. there are just alot of smart ass people...on this message board that don't take any thing serious AT ALL!

Cherisa, it's not necessarily being "smart assed" if someone believes that, after praying and worshipping to the point of exhaustion, you have a dream or hallucination of God. I can understand your frustration, but dismissing someone's reasonable objections out of hand as smartassery isn't really fair.

Both you and Bob had visions of something after focusing on it to a high degree. That could mean you pushed yourself through a window... or it could mean your intense focus led to an intense daydream.

[jeffweeder]

MY God? So...we're dealing with more than one god here ?
__________________

but hang on a minute, you said

You made us to be your presence on this planet (this is my belief as a Jew), and yet you cause chaos amongst us."

I'm sure we are both talking about the only God of the Jews.
Qu-2- Yes, he did and you failed, not him.
What about the Simchat Torah? He did promise to fix
HaBesora lephee yochanan-
The Gospel of John was written to 1st century Jewish persons, so they would believe.

Johns theme is Jesus as God- the incarnate Logos----dabar Adonai.
Would it be true Bob, that a first century Jew who read this book of John, would have seen it as a narrative of the New creation- as a Midrash on B'reshit- on the book of Genesis.? Hope you dont mind my asking..

Like on the 3rd day in Gen-A miracle with water;
Jesus 3rd day into his ministry- miracle with water (into wine)

He seperates light from darkness in gen-and John

The small light and the great light in Genesis= yochanan HaMatbil( the Baptist) and Yeshua Hamashiach( Jesus)

How do you as a Jew see the 8th chap, and what are the Midrashic connections?

Why did Jews stone lawbreakers ?, and why didnt they stone this woman, caught in Adultery? Why did they all walk away ,when Jesus, with his finger, started writing on the ground?
A Jewish friend has given me his opinion , and i would love to know if other Jews think , or see it the same way.

[uki]

Originally Posted by jeffweeder

and why didnt they stone this woman, caught in Adultery? Why did they all walk away ,when Jesus, with his finger, started writing on the ground?

because they all knew jesus could open a can of woop-ass on them faster than they could blink an eye. writing on the ground influences the natural energies.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

If we're going to start making random guesses, I think Jesus wrote down the winning Powerball Lottery numbers. The crowd dispersed because everyone was running off to buy a ticket.

[Beatnik Bob]

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

My blinks dont last 20 minutes. My naps do though.

The expirience lasted 20 minutes.

Did I say my eyes were closed durring the whole expirience?

Another thing that I should have mentioned is that it didn't happen the moment I put on the Led Zeppelin. That would be strange if the moment I clicked play I was thrown into this thing.

Also, I was too "focused" to be asleep. I don't know about anyone else, but I have to be relaxed or of gone at leaste 3-4 days with little or no sleep (which I hadn't).
I was deffinately not relaxed, I was screaming through tears. I don't know about you, but don't you close your eyes when you cry? I do.

Originally Posted by Cherisa

I know you were upset by what you saw but how did you feel.. abiut your physical being. There was probably some sort of feeling attached to your self. regardless of what you saw.. What was it?

I don't really know how I felt. It was like I just took a huge step back...
But the mind expansion felt good...well, I liked it.
I cant describe how I felt, really. I was slightly amazed, and I felt dettached...yet connected?

Originally Posted by Jeff

I'm sure we are both talking about the only God of the Jews.

As Foelhe said, God is omnipotent.
And it also has many facets.
Just because I believe as a Jew in different omnipotent facets of God, doesn't mean it is a completely different being from what Christians see as God.
I think all religions have something right about God. And that one thing we all have right about it, is of the same thing. So it is the same God, not the Jew God, the Christian gods, or the Hindu gods.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Originally Posted by Cherisa

That was a smart ass comment....SEE?

Never said I wasn't a smart-ass. But the fact that I'm occasionally snarky doesn't invalidate the points I make. Dismissing anyone who uses sarcasm to make a point is lame, lazy thinking.

But if you want me to be serious, fine. You claim to know what Jesus was sketching in the sand. Do you have any biblical verses that back up your interpretation? Or are you just saying stuff?

Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob

Also, I was too "focused" to be asleep.

*nod* That's why I think you were having an intense daydream, to be honest, since I've had daydreams so intense they gave me headaches. Although I'd like to know more about your mental state pre-vision... I know you weren't high, but were you tired or pissed off?

[DontBeAfraid]

Also, I was too "focused" to be asleep.

Said by so many who wake up at the wheel.

Sometimes I do this thing where I have the paralysis dream 10 - 15 times in a row. You know, where you are half awake but dont yet have control of your body. Most associate it with nightmares. For a couple hours straight Ill be half awake trying to move a part of my body. then Ill move it, Ill be releived and I will fall right back into the half sleep state of not having control of my body again and Ill be focused and trying to move again. Still half asleep.

Dreams can seem very real.

[Sammy56]

DBA, you have my sympathy. I've got sleep paralysis, but it usually only happens once or twice a month and only once per night. I could not imagine going through that 10-15 times in a row.

Bob, I think your experience is interesting. Honestly, I don't know if it had a natural cause or not. Even if it did, that does not rule out that it was a divine message. Have you ever had any experiences similar to this one before?

[jeffweeder]

Originally Posted by Cherisa

You know what Jesus wrote? He wrote all the names of the men who had been with the woman.. That is why they walked away.

Bravo...................Jer 17- they would have seen this, I havent quite got the ability to explain further, but God also wrote the 10 with his own finger. This is why I asked Bob those strange qu.

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Originally Posted by Cherisa

Well, that interpretation is MINE..

Then please don't state it as fact, which is arrogant.

Originally Posted by Cherisa

why can't we be serious sometimes?

I'm serious plenty of the time. Hell, ask Bob. I think I accidently pissed him off earlier because I analyzed something that was supposed to be funny. But I find it amusing when people claim to know something they can't possibly know, so I occasionally joke about it.

Originally Posted by jeffweeder

Bravo...................Jer 17- they would have seen this

Jeremiah 17? Uh, based on what, exactly? I'm aware you said you couldn't explain further, but please give it a shot.

[jeffweeder]

Jeremiah 17? Uh, based on what, exactly? I'm aware you said you couldn't explain further, but please give it a shot.

verse 13 .specifically, hum, ill give it a go, even though its off topic..
On second thoughts this is beyond me---at the moment, there's just to much to tie in, as their feasts, customs, etc all attribute there own info, towards a bigger picture.
Honestly, couldnt do it justice, -This Midrashic way of looking at it is really interesting.
Silly how we approach it in a hellinistic way, when its essentially a Jewish/Israel communication..
It kinda breathes life into the whole thing- knowing more of how they saw it

[Philosopher Foelhe]

Originally Posted by jeffweeder

verse 13 .specifically

... I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that seems suspiciously like tailoring the bible to me. It's not like God is laying out a prophesy here. It's not even God speaking, and I'm pretty sure the speaker is being metaphoric.

[jeffweeder]

Thats right, he is being metaphoric, this is what Midrash is-Jewish metaphor.(Jewish hermeneutics)
Johns gospel shows his diety more than the other 3. It points to Jesus as God becoming a man, and the messianic fulfilment of the feasts.
A lot of what JC said about himself, was timed to these feasts.
Like after the feast of Booths- the levites would gather oil (from the mount of olives
), to fill the lamps for light, which had to burn continually--lev 24.-Jesus comes down the mountain saying I am the light of the world( The spiritual fulfillment of the feast (midrash)-
The religous Jews loved their establishment, their power base, rather than the giver of it . Most of these PHONEY churches today would react to him the same way, and kick him out---

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Jeff and thank-you for bringing up a very interesting point,

Let me see if I can explain what it is that you are getting at.

Some brief history from the Old testament.

Deuteronomy 9:9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water: 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Jesus during the process of writing with his finger makes mention of these verses touching upon the traditions of the time.

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.


John 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

This event occurred upon the Sabbath and according to the tradition of the time, no one was allowed to write on the Sabbath, except if they wrote in the dust. In keeping with tradition no one was permitted to write the names of anyone in the dust because it was considered as a condemnation of those persons.

I believe that it is highly unlikely that in fact Jesus wrote anyones name upon the ground, that it is more likely that he would have quoted certain verses from the Old Testament and allowed these men to condemn themselves. The only one there that could have cast the first stone was Jesus and he chose to act with mercy.



Bob, you had asked a question in clear supplication to God and with it you received an answer.

And this small dot of light was very different as well, it was like the light of the images. It was white...and yet it seemed to have an element of darkness...very hard to describe in words.

You were presented with a much greater understanding of the world of existence, you were shown things through your own eyes but at a time in the future.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Jeremiah 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.

Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

At present you see things as unjust and unfair and yet in the future you will have gained the eyes of maturity and differentiate between that which is light and that which is darkness.

In the maturing process there has to be events that cause people to take responsiblity and there has to be examples of both good and bad. We as individuals can be told many times that fire is hot and that it will burn but only once we have been burnt can we truly have the experience and the wisdom that comes with it.

We each must choose to be a part of the light or to allow darkness to be a part of us.

Eichah 3,1 I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of His wrath. 3,2 He hath led me and caused me to walk in darkness and not in light. 3,3 Surely against me He turneth His hand again and again all the day. {S} 3,4 My flesh and my skin hath He worn out; He hath broken my bones. 3,5 He hath builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travail. 3,6 He hath made me to dwell in dark places, as those that have been long dead. {S} 3,7 He hath hedged me about, that I cannot go forth; He hath made my chain heavy. 3,8 Yea, when I cry and call for help, He shutteth out my prayer. 3,9 He hath enclosed my ways with hewn stone, He hath made my paths crooked. {S} 3,10 He is unto me as a bear lying in wait, as a lion in secret places. 3,11 He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces; He hath made me desolate. 3,12 He hath bent His bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow. {S} 3,13 He hath caused the arrows of His quiver to enter into my reins. 3,14 I am become a derision to all my people, and their song all the day. 3,15 He hath filled me with bitterness, He hath sated me with wormwood. {S} 3,16 He hath also broken my teeth with gravel stones, He hath made me to wallow in ashes. 3,17 And my soul is removed far off from peace, I forgot prosperity. 3,18 And I said: 'My strength is perished, and mine expectation from the LORD.' {S} 3,19 Remember mine affliction and mine anguish, the wormwood and the gall. 3,20 My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is bowed down within me. 3,21 This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. {S} 3,22 Surely the LORD'S mercies are not consumed, surely His compassions fail not. 3,23 They are new every morning; great is Thy faithfulness. 3,24 'The LORD is my portion', saith my soul; 'Therefore will I hope in Him.' {S} 3,25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for Him, to the soul that seeketh Him. 3,26 It is good that a man should quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. 3,27 It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth. {S} 3,28 Let him sit alone and keep silence, because He hath laid it upon him. 3,29 Let him put his mouth in the dust, if so be there may be hope. 3,30 Let him give his cheek to him that smiteth him, let him be filled full with reproach. {S} 3,31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever. 3,32 For though He cause grief, yet will He have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies. 3,33 For He doth not afflict willingly, nor grieve the children of men. {S} 3,34 To crush under foot all the prisoners of the earth, 3,35 To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the Most High, 3,36 To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not. {S} 3,37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? 3,38 Out of the mouth of the Most High proceedeth not evil and good? 3,39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a strong man because of his sins? {S} 3,40 Let us search and try our ways, and return to the LORD. 3,41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens. 3,42 We have transgressed and have rebelled; Thou hast not pardoned. {S} 3,43 Thou hast covered with anger and pursued us; Thou hast slain unsparingly. 3,44 Thou hast covered Thyself with a cloud, so that no prayer can pass through. 3,45 Thou hast made us as the offscouring and refuse in the midst of the peoples. {S} 3,46 All our enemies have opened their mouth wide against us. 3,47 Terror and the pit are come upon us, desolation and destruction. 3,48 Mine eye runneth down with rivers of water, for the breach of the daughter of my people. {S} 3,49 Mine eye is poured out, and ceaseth not, without any intermission, 3,50 Till the LORD look forth, and behold from heaven. 3,51 Mine eye affected my soul, because of all the daughters of my city. {S} 3,52 They have chased me sore like a bird, that are mine enemies without cause. 3,53 They have cut off my life in the dungeon, and have cast stones upon me. 3,54 Waters flowed over my head; I said: 'I am cut off.' {S} 3,55 I called upon Thy name, O LORD, Out of the lowest dungeon. 3,56 Thou heardest my voice; hide not Thine ear at my sighing, at my cry. 3,57 Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon Thee; Thou saidst: 'Fear not.' {S} 3,58 O Lord, Thou hast pleaded the causes of my soul; Thou hast redeemed my life. 3,59 O LORD, Thou hast seen my wrong; judge Thou my cause. 3,60 Thou hast seen all their vengeance and all their devices against me. {S} 3,61 Thou hast heard their taunt, O LORD, and all their devices against me; 3,62 The lips of those that rose up against me, and their muttering against me all the day. 3,63 Behold Thou their sitting down, and their rising up; I am their song. {S} 3,64 Thou wilt render unto them a recompense, O LORD, according to the work of their hands. 3,65 Thou wilt give them hardness of heart, Thy curse unto them. 3,66 Thou wilt pursue them in anger, and destroy them from under the heavens of the LORD. {P}


Tehillim 18,29 For Thou dost light my lamp; the LORD my God doth lighten my darkness.
18,30 For by Thee I run upon a troop; and by my God do I scale a wall.
18,31 As for God, His way is perfect; {N}
the word of the LORD is tried; He is a shield unto all them that take refuge in Him.
18,32 For who is God, save the LORD? And who is a Rock, except our God?
18,33 The God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way straight;
18,34 Who maketh my feet like hinds', and setteth me upon my high places;
18,35 Who traineth my hands for war, so that mine arms do bend a bow of brass.
18,36 Thou hast also given me Thy shield of salvation, and Thy right hand hath holden me up; and Thy condescension hath made me great.
18,37 Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, and my feet have not slipped.

May the light of God shine on us all!