Is Kwanzaa racist?

[Cartesiantheater]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa


Is this African-American holiday racist or separatist?

Some have claimed such. One famous quote sumerizing the motivation behind the creation of the holiday reads as follows:

"the sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black."

So, the question is, is this a racist holiday? Is it a separatist holiday?

Discuss.

[lycanox]

As long as it doesn't turn against other colors, I don't think so.

Its just an holiday focusing on black culture etc.
Traditions to celebrate the local culture are pretty common in the world.

Besides, nearly the entire world is celebrating something in those days.
Its only natural that others want to join in as well.

[Nu Kua]

I've been to some Kwanzaa celebrations when I lived in the Southeast and there were actually black people around to celebrate it. (There seem to be no black people here.)
I was treated just as well as anybody else, and the Seven principles can easily be applied to anybody's life, with a little creativity.
It was created in an effort to unify in pride and strength, and to let go of the anger as well as the hopelessness that come along with the history of blacks in America. A move towards positivity and life affirmation.
Maybe somewhat separatist, but I personally have no problem with that.

[Assassin X]

I can it racist. I call every holiday racist now that Christmas....I mean "The Holidays" were changed around.

Even July 4th! There are NO BLACK FIREWORKS! RACISM at its finest!

[perdition79]

Originally Posted by Assassin X

I can it racist. I call every holiday racist now that Christmas....I mean "The Holidays" were changed around.

Even July 4th! There are NO BLACK FIREWORKS! RACISM at its finest!

And why is Black History Month the shortest month of the year?

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by perdition79

And why is Black History Month the shortest month of the year?

Why is it that Black History Month is the only one among many "Heritage months" taught about in public schools? Another conspiracy, maybe, this time to keep every other race down?
Also, didn't you know that (and black actor Morgan Freeman has my back on this) Black history IS American history? (although that's an entirely different debate)





In answer to your question, did it occur to you that the following happened in February?


# February 23, 1868:
W. E. B. DuBois, important civil rights leader and co-founder of the NAACP, was born.
# February 3, 1870:
The 15th Amendment was passed, granting blacks the right to vote.
# February 25, 1870:
The first black U.S. senator, Hiram R. Revels (1822-1901), took his oath of office.
# February 12, 1909:
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was founded by a group of concerned black and white citizens in New York City.
# February 1, 1960:
In what would become a civil-rights movement milestone, a group of black Greensboro, N.C., college students began a sit-in at a segregated Woolworth's lunch counter.
# February 21, 1965:
Malcolm X, the militant leader who promoted Black Nationalism, was shot to death by three Black Muslims.
#Son of slave and abolitionist Fredrick Douglass was born
#Abraham Lincoln was born

and on and on... let me guess, the conspiracy was so great that each of these monumental events were planned to happen exactly in February with the intent to make Black History month the shortest month of the year...

can we not be retarded and do three minutes of research please? (assuming you're not joking)


February was chosen because many very important events happened in February.

[equalizer]

Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa


Is this African-American holiday racist or separatist?

Some have claimed such. One famous quote sumerizing the motivation behind the creation of the holiday reads as follows:

"the sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black."

So, the question is, is this a racist holiday? Is it a separatist holiday?

Discuss.

Only the white man will ever be labeled a racist in this country. It is politically incorrect to call any minority racist. They are simply celebrating their heritage. In fact unless you are a minority yourself this very thread is extremely racist.

[Freakshow]

I really don't see the big deal. It was created during a time when African-Americans where not treated with the respect they deserved. And let's face it, racism isn't dead by any means.

Also, holidays themselves can't be racist, only the people who celebrate them. That's what it all comes down to. I'm sure the people who celebrate vary from place to place as does it's meaning.

I who cares if i's politically correct to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? Honestly, I've never met anyone who got mad if I said it one way or the other and if you're letting a little thing like this ruin a holiday for you then you're probobly just a bitter holiday.

[DontBeAfraid]

Also, holidays themselves can't be racist, only the people who celebrate them.

Yes, they can. If they are exclusionary based on race then they are racist holidays.

[Freakshow]

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

Yes, they can. If they are exclusionary based on race then they are racist holidays.

No, only people can be racist as they are the ones who choose to exclude others. They have a choice as to whether to celebrate something one way or the other, who to include and who to exclude.

[Nu Kua]

True, Freakshow.
I am pretty damned Caucasian, and I was received with love and joy at the Kwanzaa celebration I had the opportunity to attend.

[DontBeAfraid]

No, only people can be racist as they are the ones who choose to exclude others.

Lets suppose for a moment that Somebody starts a holliday called "Hate Niggers Day".... Can you still make the claim that this holliday is not a racist holliday?... Even if black people are invited to celebrate it?

Saying that a holliday cant be racist is like saying a policy cant be racist....

[Freakshow]

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

Lets suppose for a moment that Somebody starts a holliday called "Hate Niggers Day".... Can you still make the claim that this holliday is not a racist holliday?... Even if black people are invited to celebrate it?

Saying that a holliday cant be racist is like saying a policy cant be racist....

Policies have no power unless put into power by people. They don't form lynch mobs or pull triggers, only people do that. Same with holidays, Christmas could be just as racist as anything else depending on whose celebrating it.

Without people to behind them, no idea or holiday has any strength.

[Nu Kua]

Originally Posted by Freakshow

Same with holidays, Christmas could be just as racist as anything else depending on whose celebrating it.

My first children's Bible, illustrated, prominently featured a blond haired, blue eyed Jesus. Isn't that hilarious?

And this is the same Jesus that blacks were expected to worship as well.

Of course now we usually see pics of Jesus with at least brown hair and eyes, but no typically middle eastern features, when the man was supposedly born in Bethlehem.

I've seen some depictions of a black Jesus, but generally the black Christians I knew back home, if they had pics of Jesus, he was a white guy.

Not sure if it bothered them or not, but it always kind of bugged me.

[DontBeAfraid]

Racists ACTIONS require people and effort, racist policies do not. If it was policy to kill all babies of a specific race it could only be considered a racist policy. Even if nobody ever followed the policy it would still be a racist policy.

The point, even if nobody celebrates the fictional "hate niggers day" it is still a racist holiday.

[Assassin X]

You can take this how you want I don't give a rats ass really. You know I am not racist but as always I say what no one else will.

Why is it blacks have everything that whites aren't allowed? Heres a list of what I am referring too:

Black College Funds (you have to be black to qualify).
Yet... there no white fund or anything. If you try to make one its somehow racist.

Blacks have a Miss Black Universe.
Yet.... We have no Miss White Universe. Someone wanted to make one and was called racist! WTF? Whats wrong with the Miss Universe?

Black have all black schools!
Once again no White schools because blacks protest the ideas!

Blacks have blacks days, months, holidays, events....etc.
Whites? Um.....Notta. KKK maybe...but obviously thats a racist event.

I am ALL FOR equality and all that. And I have no problem saying blacks still get uneven treatment in SOME THINGS....But thats the line....SOME THINGS. They get better treatment in other ways because they know if anyone (more so white) does anything against something they are trying to do they can just call it racist and everyone will get pissed. Even though those same people if they did it would get the same "Racist" remark thrown at them too.

I really hate that blacks want equality but then use their races "power"(calling someone racist if they don't get their way) when it comes to something they want. Don't try to get your way then come crying to me when it didn't work.

[Nu Kua]

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

Racists ACTIONS require people and effort, racist policies do not. If it was policy to kill all babies of a specific race it could only be considered a racist policy. Even if nobody ever followed the policy it would still be a racist policy.

The point, even if nobody celebrates the fictional "hate niggers day" it is still a racist holiday.

People create the policies.

[Traveler]

I think that there is another way to view this. This holiday is not raciest, it is nationalist. An African American may be American but he is still African, Just as you get Irish Americans or Chinese Americans.

They are a national group within the nation that combines with all the other national groups to make up the nation. All these different national groups have their own cultural practices that are particular to them alone. The Blacks want to start their own and build up their own national pride and establish their own heritage.

I say let them have it and leave them to enjoy themselves in peace. Its only the whites that seem to be the control freaks and who want to politicize everything.

[Freakshow]

Originally Posted by Assassin X

You can take this how you want I don't give a rats ass really. You know I am not racist but as always I say what no one else will.

Why is it blacks have everything that whites aren't allowed? Heres a list of what I am referring too:

Black College Funds (you have to be black to qualify).
Yet... there no white fund or anything. If you try to make one its somehow racist.

Blacks have a Miss Black Universe.
Yet.... We have no Miss White Universe. Someone wanted to make one and was called racist! WTF? Whats wrong with the Miss Universe?

Black have all black schools!
Once again no White schools because blacks protest the ideas!

Blacks have blacks days, months, holidays, events....etc.
Whites? Um.....Notta. KKK maybe...but obviously thats a racist event.

I am ALL FOR equality and all that. And I have no problem saying blacks still get uneven treatment in SOME THINGS....But thats the line....SOME THINGS. They get better treatment in other ways because they know if anyone (more so white) does anything against something they are trying to do they can just call it racist and everyone will get pissed. Even though those same people if they did it would get the same "Racist" remark thrown at them too.

I really hate that blacks want equality but then use their races "power"(calling someone racist if they don't get their way) when it comes to something they want. Don't try to get your way then come crying to me when it didn't work.

Well, why should whites get all-white something or other? It's not like we've ever had been at a huge disadvantage in our society.

I cannot find any information on an all-black school currently running. Can you provide the info?

Did find the beauty pageant though, and they make some good points for the reasons why: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/6901836.stm

[DontBeAfraid]

People create the policies.

So what? That doesnt mean that the policy is or is not a racist policy. Good people can be expected to create good policies and racist people can be expected to create racist policies.

[Nu Kua]

Maybe I misunderstood the intent of your words, because now that I go back and read, I think we are saying the same things- it is the people behind the policies that would make the racist policy, or not.
When I first read it, I thought you were saying the policy could be racist on its own, with no actions from the people. I was saying that creating the racist policy itself would be a racist act by a group of people.

[DontBeAfraid]

When I first read it, I thought you were saying the policy could be racist on its own, with no actions from the people.

After its creation a policy is what it is, and if it is exclusionary based on race then it is a racist policy. So I am saying a policy can be racist on its own. It doesnt take a person or group of people to enforce a racist policy for the policy itself to be racist.

it is the people behind the policies that would make the racist policy, or not.

That is not at all correct nor what Im saying.

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by Assassin X

You can take this how you want I don't give a rats ass really. You know I am not racist but as always I say what no one else will.

Why is it blacks have everything that whites aren't allowed? Heres a list of what I am referring too:

I understand where you're comming from, but it is more than black vs white (something everyone seems to forget, on both sides. There are many races and only two are ever talked about).

Black College Funds (you have to be black to qualify).
Yet... there no white fund or anything. If you try to make one its somehow racist.

A few small groups of Republican college students are trying to do this (and I think a couple actually have)- naturally, they are ridiculously small funds at this point.

Blacks have a Miss Black Universe.
Yet.... We have no Miss White Universe. Someone wanted to make one and was called racist! WTF? Whats wrong with the Miss Universe?

Hmmm... I don't really have a good justification for that one (although maybe we should have a Miss (insert race) Universe for every race, since after all, the variety of races are a smorgasbord of beautiful women, right?)

Black have all black schools!
Once again no White schools because blacks protest the ideas!

Here in Tennessee I can get into TSU (a traditionally black school) for free on a minority scholarship (or at least that's how it was in the past- I'll have to look into that).

There should be no racial segregation whatsoever, but these schools are private, not government. I'm not sure on the laws of this issue, but I don't think they can legally exclude all whites.

Blacks have blacks days, months, holidays, events....etc.
Whites? Um.....Notta. KKK maybe...but obviously thats a racist event.

Whites shouldn't even be classified as one race. There are several different races of "white." But then you've gotta ask about what constitutes a race.

At least there are numorous racial heritage days and months (like Jewish American Heritage month, for example). Naturally only the one gets mass discussion, but I attribute this more to the fiery nature of the American black community in fighting for their rights than to anything else.

I am ALL FOR equality and all that. And I have no problem saying blacks still get uneven treatment in SOME THINGS....But thats the line....SOME THINGS. They get better treatment in other ways because they know if anyone (more so white) does anything against something they are trying to do they can just call it racist and everyone will get pissed. Even though those same people if they did it would get the same "Racist" remark thrown at them too.

I really hate that blacks want equality but then use their races "power"(calling someone racist if they don't get their way) when it comes to something they want. Don't try to get your way then come crying to me when it didn't work.

The problem cannot be solved in the way people are trying to. The only way is to destroy the concept of race altogether, but unfortunately too many of the (ignorant) population are still far too dependent on accepting an inherited identity instead of definiing their own.

I am who I chose to be, not who I was born as. Until this sort of thinking permeates throughout society, racism will still exist.

[Freakshow]

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

After its creation a policy is what it is, and if it is exclusionary based on race then it is a racist policy. So I am saying a policy can be racist on its own. It doesnt take a person or group of people to enforce a racist policy for the policy itself to be racist.

Yes, actually that is right now that I think about. I think the problem is we're not really making our points clear enough for each other. I was just saying an inanimate or non-corporal object couldn't be racist (i.e. actively hate a race), but putting it you're way they can definetly support racism.

So I guess we can all agree on two things then: Policies and idea's can support racism, but need people behind them to have any power.

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by Freakshow

Well, why should whites get all-white something or other? It's not like we've ever had been at a huge disadvantage in our society.

That is garbage. Why should any person at all pay for the crimes of anyone else? You recall that there are many an impoverished white person (my own childhood was extremely impoverished, and I had to deal with the difficulty of getting foodstamps because my family wasn't the right skin color).

The basis of government aid should be that of disadvantage, not race. There is nothing inherent within a race that determines that the race is advantaged or dissadvantaged, therefore it is folly to base such laws on race (the reason it is done that way is because it's just easier, but it certainly is not accurate).

Idealy, government aid should be color blind, but instead should focus on economical and social need.

First, of course, the causes of cyclical poverty must be destroyed, and ultimately this will come down to brain washing in public schools or removing children from unfit parents on a massive scale.

I cannot find any information on an all-black school currently running. Can you provide the info?

There are stil a few (or at least were some a few years ago).

TSU, for example.

Also, a state by state list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

Private schools I'm not sure on.