Christians claim hate crimes law an effort to 'eradicate' their beliefs

[Cyranothe2nd]

From Newsweek:

A Christian group in Michigan has filed a lawsuit alleging that a package of hate crimes laws named after murder victim Matthew Shepard is an affront to their religious freedom.Far from the intended purpose of severely punishing criminals who commit unspeakable acts against a persecuted minority group, the religious activists claim the laws are a guarded effort to "eradicate" their beliefs.

Filed by the Thomas More Law Center -- which bills itself as the religious answer to the American Civil Liberties Union -- the complaint claims that protecting gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people "is an effort to eradicate religious beliefs opposing the homosexual agenda from the marketplace of ideas by demonizing, vilifying, and criminalizing such beliefs as a matter of federal law and policy."
The suit was placed on behalf of the American Family Association of Michigan president Gary Glenn, along with pastors Rene Ouellette, Levon Yuille and James Combs.

Claiming "there is no need" to extend hate crimes definitions, Thomas More chief counsel Richard Thompson attempted to minimize the impact of violent crimes against homosexuals. "Of the 1.38 million violent crimes reported in the U.S. by the FBI in 2008, only 243 were considered as motivated by the victim’s sexual orientation," he wrote on the group's Web site. "The sole purpose of this law is to criminalize the Bible and use the threat of federal prosecutions and long jail sentences to silence Christians from expressing their Biblically-based religious belief that homosexual conduct is a sin."

rawstory.com/2010/02/christians-claim-hate-crimes-law-effort-eradicate-beliefs/

Of course, Thompson is full of shit, as a quick look at the Dept of Justice's website shows:
Offenders targeted 1,706 victims due to a sexual-orientation bias, and of these:

* 57.5 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-male homosexual bias.
* 27.3 percent were victims because of an anti-homosexual bias.
* 11.6 percent were victims because of an anti-female homosexual bias.
* 2.0 percent were victims because of an anti-heterosexual bias.
* 1.6 percent were victims because of an anti-bisexual bias.

These cases made up 17.6% of all hate crimes prosecution for the year. And this was in a year that hate crimes were not vigorously prosecuted (which has changed in Obama's administration blog.oregonlive.com/race/2009/12/hate_crime_prosecutions_to_get.html)

Thomas E. Perez, who took over the civil right division in Oct of 2009, said in a speech on Friday to the American Constitution Society, and in comments to reporters, that he was "shocked" by what he described as the feeble record of his predecessors under President George W. Bush in bringing hate-crimes cases.

AND THEN: One of the pastors who sued is saying that anti-gay hate crimes legislation is demeaning to black people!
"I feel like individuals [are] demeaning the black community in trying to equate us to what someone chooses to do sexually," Yiulle remarks. "The totality of black people is far greater than what one would prefer to do in expressing themselves in the manner I've already stated."


So, just to review: Violence against minorities is apparently a necessary part of Christian worship that must be legally protected. O_o

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello Cyranothe2nd and thank-you for your desire for contention,

To me this really is a no brainer, which is more obedient in the eyes of God those that say they will be obedient to God and then do not or those that say that they will not be obedient and in the end turn out to be obedient.

The Gay community is a huge stumbling block for the Christian community and the Christian community is a stumbling block for those in the Gay community.

Christ has asked his followers to love their enemies and allow the Word of God to be the transformer in their lives but they want to condemn those that do not conform to their understanding of the Word of God. They have shown that they have little or no faith in the Word of God and have in doing so failed to be faithful to their promise.

What they have done is said to God, you do not have the power to have an effect in the life of these people and in their own way they have scoffed at God and in doing so have TESTED God and left God with no choice but to raise these people up to a new standard, were people were saying what good can come out of Nazareth? The word in the Christian community is what good can come out of the Gay community?

God has chosen the Government to hold these people responsible for their intolerant attitude and their own lack of faith.

Luke 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

[ecosikz]

depends.. some fake christians condemn.. others warn people.. ya know. give them a heads up like.. hello sir, you admit your gay correct? sir: yes, do you know its a sin in Gods eye's if sir says yes than I will say do you know you will be condemned for it? sir: yes. ok then have a nice day. if he does not know its a sin or can be condemned for it. then let him know the reasons why it is a sin and why he will be condemned for committing that sin. its simple.. but a hate crime seriously? bring it on. I won't fight because i knew this day would come and I knew I would be condemned for what I believe in. I will die for The Lord Jesus Christ my God.

[Assassin X]

For once I gotta agree with GodsGift mostly.

I mean I have no problems with gays. But we all know religion and gays don't go together. It never will. And sadly theres no solution. One side says get rid of gays. The other side says get rid of religion. Neither side is right. And whats worse is the extreme people are what make these issue worse. Kinda like people who constantly have to make religion look bad despite the fact it usually is harmless and even does good.

Those people obviously have an agenda and are not open minded. Not that I am pointing out anyone. >.>

[Godsgifttomankind]

Hello ecosikz and thank-you for your concerns,

Originally Posted by ecosikz

depends.. some fake christians condemn.. others warn people.. ya know. give them a heads up like.. hello sir, you admit your gay correct? sir: yes, do you know its a sin in Gods eye's if sir says yes than I will say do you know you will be condemned for it? sir: yes. ok then have a nice day. if he does not know its a sin or can be condemned for it. then let him know the reasons why it is a sin and why he will be condemned for committing that sin. its simple.. but a hate crime seriously? bring it on. I won't fight because i knew this day would come and I knew I would be condemned for what I believe in. I will die for The Lord Jesus Christ my God.

Would you be willing to accept him for who he is and allow the Word of God to act in his life or would you expect that he should give up his ways without knowing the love of God?

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

[Traveler]

get this in the right order

The Christians are not going to be trying to chase the gays out the world. Out in the world is where they belong

It is the world that is trying to force the Christians to have the gays in their church leadership in violation of the doctrine of the faith itself. The law is to dictate to a group that they are to cast away the tenants of their faith and embrace the sins that they are supposed to avoid in violation of the God that they serve.

Try and pull that shit in an Islamic nation and see how far you get.

[GamerGal]

This is hilarious! A law making it a hate crime for killing gays for being gay is against the Christian Faith? Well Boo the Fuck Who! Get over it assholes.

[JenaS62]

If you truly believe in God, then you should also believe that if being gay is such a bad thing in God's eyes, then God will deal with it in the afterlife. Why are people trying to do the work of God? It is not their place to make these judgements or to take action against those they perceive to be sinners.

[MaximumPain]

Originally Posted by JenaS62

If you truly believe in God, then you should also believe that if being gay is such a bad thing in God's eyes, then God will deal with it in the afterlife. Why are people trying to do the work of God? It is not their place to make these judgements or to take action against those they perceive to be sinners.

It seems the haters dont have faith in their God that he will deal with things as he sees fit. Also when did Jesus tell us to tie gays to a fence post and torture them to death?

[JenaS62]

Originally Posted by MaximumPain

It seems the haters dont have faith in their God that he will deal with things as he sees fit. Also when did Jesus tell us to tie gays to a fence post and torture them to death?

Jesus never told us any such thing. It's this type of dogma and rhetoric that made me start to question Christianity and eventually walk away from it all together, and I find it very amusing that Christians who abhor Islam's violence would condone it among their own when it suits their purpose.

[Assassin X]

Also when did Jesus tell us to tie gays to a fence post and torture them to death?

Yeah thats wrong. I mean like, its not fair to anyone else. What if I want to tie a non-gay to fence post and torture them? :)

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by JenaS62

If you truly believe in God, then you should also believe that if being gay is such a bad thing in God's eyes, then God will deal with it in the afterlife. Why are people trying to do the work of God? It is not their place to make these judgements or to take action against those they perceive to be sinners.

Indeed that is correct. Now just because they are walking the road to the fire it does not mean that others have to follow them. Now the Christians do believe that God will deal with it in the afterlife. But he will also deal with us in the afterlife as well. If we start to practice their sins then we will partake of their judgment as well.

The only real action we are taking is that we do not want to be partakers of their actions so why are you trying to force it on us?

[DontBeAfraid]

The only real action we are taking is that we do not want to be partakers of their actions so why are you trying to force it on us?

lol... Tell me, clown, how is making it illegal to tie a person to a fence and beat them to death simply because they are gay the same as forcing you to partake in gay sex? Answer the question before you post anymore of your bullshit... asshole.

[MaximumPain]

Originally Posted by Assassin X

Yeah thats wrong. I mean like, its not fair to anyone else. What if I want to tie a non-gay to fence post and torture them? :)

Then its not a hate crime just sick.

[JenaS62]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Indeed that is correct. Now just because they are walking the road to the fire it does not mean that others have to follow them. Now the Christians do believe that God will deal with it in the afterlife. But he will also deal with us in the afterlife as well. If we start to practice their sins then we will partake of their judgment as well.

The only real action we are taking is that we do not want to be partakers of their actions so why are you trying to force it on us?

Traveler, seriously. Who is trying to force you to partake in gay sex? It's not contagious you know.

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by Godsgifttomankind

Hello Cyranothe2nd and thank-you for your desire for contention,

To me this really is a no brainer, which is more obedient in the eyes of God those that say they will be obedient to God and then do not or those that say that they will not be obedient and in the end turn out to be obedient.

[...]

I know this one!

Originally Posted by Jesus

What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.' 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go.

Which of the two did what his father wanted?

[weederbro]

Good one Cart LOL!

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

lol... Tell me, clown, how is making it illegal to tie a person to a fence and beat them to death simply because they are gay the same as forcing you to partake in gay sex? Answer the question before you post anymore of your bullshit... asshole.

To tie a guy to a fence is wrong. Now please provide proof that this was inspired only by religion and not just by a bunch of thugs that disliked this particular gay.

Passing legislation to force a church group to bless homosexual behavior despite the fact that it is contrary to their faith is to say that the state now controls the church and dictates what it will and will not teach.

And now you all wonder why the nation is coming under judgment and want to complain that God is evil because he does bad things to you.

Well next time don't start that which you can't finish.

[DontBeAfraid]

Now please provide proof that this was inspired only by religion and not just by a bunch of thugs that disliked this particular gay.

I didnt say it was inspired by religion... I dont know what inspired these two guys to hate homosexuals. And they didnt know this particular gay for more than a couple of hours before they tricked him into driving to a remote area to murder him.

Passing legislation to force a church group to bless homosexual behavior despite the fact that it is contrary to their faith is to say that the state now controls the church and dictates what it will and will not teach.

Ya, that WOULD be the case if that is at all what had happened. The fact though is that the legislation does not dictate what a church does or does not have to condone/teach/preach. The legislation simply makes the penalties worse for a person who attacks another person simply because of their sexual preference.

And now you all wonder why the nation is coming under judgment and want to complain that God is evil because he does bad things to you.

huh?

So traveler, how is hate crime legislation forcing you to have gay sex?

[one14am]

God loves haters, gays, idiots. lesbians, bigots, bi's, fanatics, transgenders, and posters to this site all the same. At least that's what my christian upbringing taught me. But then again I wasn't raised in an militant hatred filled guilt ridden fanatical extremist denomination. I was Presbyterian. And everyone knows those liberal freaks stem from the split from the tyrannical right in part with that letter nailed to the church door by Martin Luther, another freak who didn't didn't do what he was told, stating that a man (priest) didn't need to be married to another man (God) but that he could be married to a woman. Yeah, him and Calvin, with modern approaches to religious views. Not that modern is good but I am not so sure of the old ways of thought. Anyway, that was years after other splits from the government owned religious regime of earlier years. You know, the one famous for celibacy in priesthood but somehow condones, or turns a blind eye to man boy sex. And it goes on. And on.

It will all get sorted out in the end. In the meantime why be mean. I will just laugh at you as you get angrier.

[Zer0th]

Originally Posted by one14am

God loves haters, gays, idiots. lesbians, bigots, bi's, fanatics, transgenders, and posters to this site all the same.

Indeed, but in the race to heaven [allegedly] the tax collectors and prostitutes whup the Pharisees.

[JenaS62]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Passing legislation to force a church group to bless homosexual behavior despite the fact that it is contrary to their faith is to say that the state now controls the church and dictates what it will and will not teach.

No one wants the church to bless homosexuality. They just don't want the church to preach hate filled rhetoric about it.

[Mezurashi]

Originally Posted by JenaS62

No one wants the church to bless homosexuality. They just don't want the church to preach hate filled rhetoric about it.

actually the Devout Gays want the Church to bless homosexuality - their point being that many, many gay priests have been allowed to wield power in the past (albeit in the closet) therefore things can't be That different in Modern Times.

[JenaS62]

Originally Posted by Mezurashi

actually the Devout Gays want the Church to bless homosexuality - their point being that many, many gay priests have been allowed to wield power in the past (albeit in the closet) therefore things can't be That different in Modern Times.

Well then I can see why Christians would be fearful of this. Be it right or wrong, their beliefs should not be mandated by anyone and if Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, then why should they be forced to accept it in their church? It would be like mandating that Jews have to accept Jesus Christ as their savior.

[Cartesiantheater]

Originally Posted by JenaS62

Well then I can see why Christians would be fearful of this.

^^ THIS has nothing to do with any hate crime laws, and Mez was merely pointing out that GAY BELIEVERS would like for churches to bless them (wouldn't you want your church to bless you too?).

Do you see the difference between what individual minorities want and what the law actual dictates?

Originally Posted by JenaS62

Be it right or wrong, their beliefs should not be mandated by anyone and if Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, then why should they be forced to accept it in their church?

In what way is gay christians wanting their churches to bless them in any way even hinting at forcing any church to change their doctrine?

Originally Posted by JenaS62

It would be like mandating that Jews have to accept Jesus Christ as their savior.

What terrible logic. This is NOT even close to a good comparison.

A more legitimate comparison would be this:

Some Christians wish that Jews liked them and consider them to be a branch of Judaism.

Where does that in any way indicate that the government (or any group) is going to, or even WANTS to, force Jews to accept Christian doctrine? No where. But essentially you have made that very same illogical leap above.